Comments on: MAWAE SOFTENS STANCE ON ROOKIE PAY http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:39:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: lestat67 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-50069 lestat67 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:39:45 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-50069 When any negotiations take place it is common to compare salary and benefits from similar positions. Since there is no other professional football league of the NFL's caliber it only makes sense to compare it to other professional sports. While the NBA and MLB have higher average salaries there rookie pay is much more reasonable than the NFL's. I believe the NBA generally starts with a 2 year contract. This would work in the NFL but in order to give that up the players would definitely need to get something in return. When comparing the NFL to the NBA and MLB it is obvious that the lack of guaranteed money is puts them at a disadvantage. Decreasing rookie pay in exchange for a greater percentage of guaranteed money in the event of injury or under performance seems like a fair trade to me. When any negotiations take place it is common to compare salary and benefits from similar positions. Since there is no other professional football league of the NFL’s caliber it only makes sense to compare it to other professional sports. While the NBA and MLB have higher average salaries there rookie pay is much more reasonable than the NFL’s. I believe the NBA generally starts with a 2 year contract. This would work in the NFL but in order to give that up the players would definitely need to get something in return. When comparing the NFL to the NBA and MLB it is obvious that the lack of guaranteed money is puts them at a disadvantage. Decreasing rookie pay in exchange for a greater percentage of guaranteed money in the event of injury or under performance seems like a fair trade to me.

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]]> By: Jeremiah W http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49978 Jeremiah W Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:00:50 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49978 FiveFiveNine, where does the money go when a team cuts a veteran player and takes a "cap hit"? They can still claim they are spending as much as the "cap" allows, but in fact are on the books for a lot closer to the minimum levels than the cap. They can also give players they want to keep 4 year deals instead of 7 and inflate the "cap" number, and still never actually pay the final 2 years of the deal like in Shaun Alexander's case. He eventually got the MVP type contract, but only got to cash the checks for 2 years. He is a proven vet player, but because he is also proven to be 30+ and beatdown, not even the Bungles are willing to offer him a minimum type deal. FiveFiveNine, where does the money go when a team cuts a veteran player and takes a “cap hit”? They can still claim they are spending as much as the “cap” allows, but in fact are on the books for a lot closer to the minimum levels than the cap. They can also give players they want to keep 4 year deals instead of 7 and inflate the “cap” number, and still never actually pay the final 2 years of the deal like in Shaun Alexander’s case. He eventually got the MVP type contract, but only got to cash the checks for 2 years. He is a proven vet player, but because he is also proven to be 30+ and beatdown, not even the Bungles are willing to offer him a minimum type deal.

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]]> By: Dutch http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49972 Dutch Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:53:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49972 One argument for the large rookie pay, although I would shed no tears to see it reigned in: The top player coming out of college is forced to play for a team not of his choosing which is likely one of the worst teams in the NFL. His chances for success are not entirely under his control. Instead, he is at the mercy of what could be a terrible offensive line, poor coaching, a scheme that doesn't fit his talents, etc that impact his development as a player. A player that failed with the team that drafted him may have succeeded wildly if he had the opportunity to choose his team. Since complete rookie free agency is not practical, a system that rewards the top players in the draft for being thought of as the best and for playing for the worst teams isn't totally unreasonable. One argument for the large rookie pay, although I would shed no tears to see it reigned in:

The top player coming out of college is forced to play for a team not of his choosing which is likely one of the worst teams in the NFL. His chances for success are not entirely under his control. Instead, he is at the mercy of what could be a terrible offensive line, poor coaching, a scheme that doesn’t fit his talents, etc that impact his development as a player. A player that failed with the team that drafted him may have succeeded wildly if he had the opportunity to choose his team.

Since complete rookie free agency is not practical, a system that rewards the top players in the draft for being thought of as the best and for playing for the worst teams isn’t totally unreasonable.

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]]> By: Jeremiah W http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49968 Jeremiah W Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:50:56 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49968 The NFL does have a salary floor, and if thing goes through without changing some other dynamics of the CBA, a lot more teams will be spending closer to the floor than trying to overspend the cap with creative bonus structures and backloaded deals that increas signing bonus money. Making the salary cap easy to operate is not the goal of the NFLPA. They want to get rid of it. The stupid rookie contracts only help the cause. The bottom line in my opinion is just draft the right player and they will be worth it. Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, Eli and Peyton, Carson Palmer, Larry Fitzgerald, Braylon Edwards, Joe Thomas, all helped get the teams out of the top 10 and into contention as the system was intended to do. The Raiders have no one to blame but Al Davis for wasting big money on top picks. The Clowns wasted millions on draft picks until they figured it was better to invest in a good GM than top 10 draft picks every year. Don't hate the player, hate the game. The injuries, the difficlut nature of a violent sport, and bad scouting all contribute to a player being a "bust" and wasting your team's salary cap space. But that is all arbtrary, and as teams like DC and Dallas have proven over the years, the salary cap is a very pliable Hard cap number. They seem to always have enough to get who ever they seem to want. Jerry jones is just a little better at evaluating the talent. The NFL does have a salary floor, and if thing goes through without changing some other dynamics of the CBA, a lot more teams will be spending closer to the floor than trying to overspend the cap with creative bonus structures and backloaded deals that increas signing bonus money.
Making the salary cap easy to operate is not the goal of the NFLPA. They want to get rid of it. The stupid rookie contracts only help the cause.

The bottom line in my opinion is just draft the right player and they will be worth it. Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, Eli and Peyton, Carson Palmer, Larry Fitzgerald, Braylon Edwards, Joe Thomas, all helped get the teams out of the top 10 and into contention as the system was intended to do.

The Raiders have no one to blame but Al Davis for wasting big money on top picks. The Clowns wasted millions on draft picks until they figured it was better to invest in a good GM than top 10 draft picks every year.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. The injuries, the difficlut nature of a violent sport, and bad scouting all contribute to a player being a “bust” and wasting your team’s salary cap space. But that is all arbtrary, and as teams like DC and Dallas have proven over the years, the salary cap is a very pliable Hard cap number. They seem to always have enough to get who ever they seem to want.

Jerry jones is just a little better at evaluating the talent.

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]]> By: FiveFiveNine http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49942 FiveFiveNine Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:09:14 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49942 Jeremiah and Mervin, I don't know Jamarcus Russell's salary cap number for 2008, but the point is that if his cap number was lower, teams like the Raiders would have more money to give to veterans. Make jokes if you want about the Raiders overspending as it is, but the principle applies to any team that has picked recently in the top 10 and now has a young, unproven player taking up a disproportionate amount of the salary cap. Owners are not going to pocket the money because, in addition to their own desire to win, there is pressure from the fans to win, not to mention a salary cap floor. Jeremiah and Mervin, I don’t know Jamarcus Russell’s salary cap number for 2008, but the point is that if his cap number was lower, teams like the Raiders would have more money to give to veterans. Make jokes if you want about the Raiders overspending as it is, but the principle applies to any team that has picked recently in the top 10 and now has a young, unproven player taking up a disproportionate amount of the salary cap. Owners are not going to pocket the money because, in addition to their own desire to win, there is pressure from the fans to win, not to mention a salary cap floor.

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]]> By: Lavasse http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49921 Lavasse Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:19:59 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49921 There are two major things to remember here people: The NFL may have a salary cap, but it ALSO has a salary floor. This means a certain percent of the salary cap HAS TO BE SPENT no matter what. If its not going to untested rookies it HAS TO GO TO VETERANS, plain and simple. There are two major things to remember here people:

The NFL may have a salary cap, but it ALSO has a salary floor.

This means a certain percent of the salary cap HAS TO BE SPENT no matter what.

If its not going to untested rookies it HAS TO GO TO VETERANS, plain and simple.

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]]> By: Jeremiah W http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49914 Jeremiah W Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:58:46 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49914 svnrdr, first of all I never said the current system was fair to vet NFL players, I just said changing this part of it, in exchange for nothing would not help the cause of the NFLPA, which is to get more money for the players, all of them, not just the ones you already know and love, but the entire group. The key to getting the things they want is exploiting the little points of leverage they already have, like rookies who are not going to be worth the big money driving up the price of the vets who are. What other leverage do they have in a system that has most players out of the NFL before they become elgible for free agency? Nothing about the way veteran players are currently treated leads me to believe that they would actaully benifit by saving the owners some money when they make bad contracts, that they don't even have to fully pay. How much money did Ryan Leaf actually get? Did he really hamstring the Chargers salary cap for years to come, or did they just dump him after 2 seasons and move on. NBA and MLB owners eat bad contracts like that for breakfast. Try shelling out 110 Million for a LHP who was on steroids the whole time he was in Oakland, and now can't stay healthy or get anyone out. For every Ryan Leaf, there are 5 guys like Ed Reed, Ray Lewis or Todd Heap that were taken at the bottom of the first round and outplayed most of the vetrans at the position for years before they got paid like it. Ray Lewis still makes 3 million per year less than Melvin Mora (38 yr old, possibly, 3rd baseman for the Sorryoles) svnrdr, first of all I never said the current system was fair to vet NFL players, I just said changing this part of it, in exchange for nothing would not help the cause of the NFLPA, which is to get more money for the players, all of them, not just the ones you already know and love, but the entire group. The key to getting the things they want is exploiting the little points of leverage they already have, like rookies who are not going to be worth the big money driving up the price of the vets who are. What other leverage do they have in a system that has most players out of the NFL before they become elgible for free agency?

Nothing about the way veteran players are currently treated leads me to believe that they would actaully benifit by saving the owners some money when they make bad contracts, that they don’t even have to fully pay.

How much money did Ryan Leaf actually get? Did he really hamstring the Chargers salary cap for years to come, or did they just dump him after 2 seasons and move on. NBA and MLB owners eat bad contracts like that for breakfast. Try shelling out 110 Million for a LHP who was on steroids the whole time he was in Oakland, and now can’t stay healthy or get anyone out.

For every Ryan Leaf, there are 5 guys like Ed Reed, Ray Lewis or Todd Heap that were taken at the bottom of the first round and outplayed most of the vetrans at the position for years before they got paid like it.

Ray Lewis still makes 3 million per year less than Melvin Mora (38 yr old, possibly, 3rd baseman for the Sorryoles)

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]]> By: shaunypoo http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49905 shaunypoo Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:37:37 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49905 Veterans would get more money. The Dolphins could use the majority of the money they payed Long to get more higher quality veteran players to shore up their team instead of praying that this kid is the real thing. If he is not, they have to pay a boatload of money next year to a kid they hope is the real thing. Instead they could bid for the good players and that would drive up value for veterans. There is parity to some degree in the NFL, but we keep seeing the Raiders and Dolphins and other team consistently at the top of the draft charts. They need this money for proven players. They could probably evaluate talent a little better, but its all a crapshot anyway. Just my 2 cents Veterans would get more money. The Dolphins could use the majority of the money they payed Long to get more higher quality veteran players to shore up their team instead of praying that this kid is the real thing. If he is not, they have to pay a boatload of money next year to a kid they hope is the real thing. Instead they could bid for the good players and that would drive up value for veterans. There is parity to some degree in the NFL, but we keep seeing the Raiders and Dolphins and other team consistently at the top of the draft charts. They need this money for proven players. They could probably evaluate talent a little better, but its all a crapshot anyway. Just my 2 cents

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]]> By: Swervinmervin http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49896 Swervinmervin Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:23:54 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49896 Looks like Florio can stop using Mawae as an example of someone who disagrees with Upshaw. Anyway, Jeremiah W from is correct. OWners are pricks and they arent gonna give squat to the vets who "deserve" the money. Terry Glenn is a great example. So is any other beat up vet that is getting paid squadoosh compared to the rookies. Looks like Florio can stop using Mawae as an example of someone who disagrees with Upshaw.

Anyway, Jeremiah W from is correct. OWners are pricks and they arent gonna give squat to the vets who “deserve” the money. Terry Glenn is a great example. So is any other beat up vet that is getting paid squadoosh compared to the rookies.

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]]> By: svnrdr http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49895 svnrdr Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:23:43 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49895 AMAZING!!! If you rearrange the letters in J-e-r-e-m-i-a-h-W it spells GENE UPSHAW! Dude, are you SERIOUS??? There are only a FEW players each year who reap the benefits of the current system. Your mentality on this one is akin to a lottery ticket being a carrot for the millions who get Jack $hit for their hard work in order to purchase a chance at millions. And I don't think anyone has said that a guy drafted in the top ten hasn't done anything...what the majority contend is that a guy drafted in the top ten hasn't done anything in the NFL to justify such a windfall. HUGE DIFFERENCE!! AMAZING!!! If you rearrange the letters in J-e-r-e-m-i-a-h-W it spells GENE UPSHAW!

Dude, are you SERIOUS??? There are only a FEW players each year who reap the benefits of the current system. Your mentality on this one is akin to a lottery ticket being a carrot for the millions who get Jack $hit for their hard work in order to purchase a chance at millions.

And I don’t think anyone has said that a guy drafted in the top ten hasn’t done anything…what the majority contend is that a guy drafted in the top ten hasn’t done anything in the NFL to justify such a windfall. HUGE DIFFERENCE!!

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]]> By: radneck http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49891 radneck Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:21:19 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49891 I definately think the pay for high end 1st round draft picks is way out of hand. How about having a fixed rate for how much first rounder can make as a base salary and then have reasonable performance based bonuses for games started and others based on the position they play like yards rushing, catches, sacks, etc. Probably would be way too complicated but if it was set up as a rookie first round pay scale across the league it would be fair. The rookies that perform up to their hype would do well while the busts would also be paid fairly. I bed there'd be fewer busts with this system since there'd be a better incentive to play hard and produce on the field. Just a thought. I definately think the pay for high end 1st round draft picks is way out of hand. How about having a fixed rate for how much first rounder can make as a base salary and then have reasonable performance based bonuses for games started and others based on the position they play like yards rushing, catches, sacks, etc. Probably would be way too complicated but if it was set up as a rookie first round pay scale across the league it would be fair. The rookies that perform up to their hype would do well while the busts would also be paid fairly. I bed there’d be fewer busts with this system since there’d be a better incentive to play hard and produce on the field. Just a thought.

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]]> By: Jeremiah W http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49886 Jeremiah W Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:10:10 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49886 I think Upshaw is right about this one. What about NFL owners leads anyone to believe they will be giving the money to veteran players and not just putting in thier pockets. Terry Glenn going to get his full salary or be forced into taking a paycut? The NFL does not reward players for what they have already done. Big contracts are given to those players who are in demand, based on what they actually may or may not do in the future. There is also a player development system in place that rewards the top NCAA footballers with that big NFL payday for proving himself on the collegiate level. To take away the carrott the donkey is chasing would surley tip the cart of the gravy train that is pro football. TO SAY A GUY WHO WAS DRAFTED IN THE TOP 10 OF THE nfl HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING IS RIDICULOUS. They have been playing football for a long time already, basically for free, and have proven to at least on GM that they are the best possible player available. Just because that may not turn out to be the case, does not mean the player was wrong, it does not mean the system was wrong, it means the guy who gave him the money was. Young free agents can simply point to the top pick that year at his position as a starting point for contract negotions. The contract the top rookies get every year is based on what the guy got the year before, as is almost every free agent deal. Upshaw still has got to go, but that does not mean he is wrong on this particualar issue. NFL vet players will not get more money just because rookies get less. This will not help get them gauranteed contracts or bigger bonus money. The people who point to the NBA system need to remeber the NBA rookies get garanteed contracts, and have a much lower chance of getting thier neck broken. The NFLPA would surley trade a rookie wage scale for faster free agency and gauranteed contracts, but to simply give away a barganing chip such as this for nothing would be beyond foolish. I think Upshaw is right about this one. What about NFL owners leads anyone to believe they will be giving the money to veteran players and not just putting in thier pockets. Terry Glenn going to get his full salary or be forced into taking a paycut?

The NFL does not reward players for what they have already done. Big contracts are given to those players who are in demand, based on what they actually may or may not do in the future.

There is also a player development system in place that rewards the top NCAA footballers with that big NFL payday for proving himself on the collegiate level.

To take away the carrott the donkey is chasing would surley tip the cart of the gravy train that is pro football.

TO SAY A GUY WHO WAS DRAFTED IN THE TOP 10 OF THE nfl HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING IS RIDICULOUS.
They have been playing football for a long time already, basically for free, and have proven to at least on GM that they are the best possible player available. Just because that may not turn out to be the case, does not mean the player was wrong, it does not mean the system was wrong, it means the guy who gave him the money was.

Young free agents can simply point to the top pick that year at his position as a starting point for contract negotions. The contract the top rookies get every year is based on what the guy got the year before, as is almost every free agent deal.

Upshaw still has got to go, but that does not mean he is wrong on this particualar issue. NFL vet players will not get more money just because rookies get less. This will not help get them gauranteed contracts or bigger bonus money.

The people who point to the NBA system need to remeber the NBA rookies get garanteed contracts, and have a much lower chance of getting thier neck broken.

The NFLPA would surley trade a rookie wage scale for faster free agency and gauranteed contracts, but to simply give away a barganing chip such as this for nothing would be beyond foolish.

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]]> By: Xetuoh1836 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49867 Xetuoh1836 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:43:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49867 Or in the case of Maio Williams, you could get a freebie riding FB, who still isn't contributing squat or VY, who dances with naked men, and can't throw a TD, while focusing on the centers bottom half. Or in the case of Maio Williams, you could get a freebie riding FB, who still isn’t contributing squat or VY, who dances with naked men, and can’t throw a TD, while focusing on the centers bottom half.

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]]> By: albaNY Hawker http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49866 albaNY Hawker Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:42:02 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49866 Another by-product of a rookie salary cap is that college players might not be enticed into coming out of school early, thus making the NFL appear to be supportive of education, and giving the teams another year or two to evaluate potential blockbuster players, to see if they're just busts. This would also improve the quality of the college game as well. Another by-product of a rookie salary cap is that college players might not be enticed into coming out of school early, thus making the NFL appear to be supportive of education, and giving the teams another year or two to evaluate potential blockbuster players, to see if they’re just busts. This would also improve the quality of the college game as well.

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]]> By: monger http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49860 monger Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:37:09 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49860 Who is Mawae's agent? Who is Mawae’s agent?

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]]> By: LiveNBreath Football http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49856 LiveNBreath Football Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:33:53 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49856 The reason it took Mawae so long to clarify his comments is that it is difficult to talk with Gene's fingers around one's throat. The Players' Union needs to get over the idea that some people are entitled to millions of dollars just because their name is called before someone else on one day in April. Heck, it's not even if you get a Peyton Manning or a Ryan Leaf, it is that because Ryan Leaf got x millions several years ago as the first pick, today's first pick must get y millions. Each year the current system demands higher and higher salaries for each slot, not based on any reasonable calculation but simply that it be more than the person got at that slot the year before. The reason it took Mawae so long to clarify his comments is that it is difficult to talk with Gene’s fingers around one’s throat.

The Players’ Union needs to get over the idea that some people are entitled to millions of dollars just because their name is called before someone else on one day in April. Heck, it’s not even if you get a Peyton Manning or a Ryan Leaf, it is that because Ryan Leaf got x millions several years ago as the first pick, today’s first pick must get y millions. Each year the current system demands higher and higher salaries for each slot, not based on any reasonable calculation but simply that it be more than the person got at that slot the year before.

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]]> By: svnrdr http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49854 svnrdr Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:28:15 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49854 I dropped Gene Upshaw off at the pool this morning. I dropped Gene Upshaw off at the pool this morning.

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]]> By: kowboydmac http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49851 kowboydmac Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:26:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49851 the 1998 draft is a great standpoint for this argument. the obvious flaw being the Manning/Leaf debate. But there are also the runningback debate as well, with the phenomal Fred Taylor going AFTER Curtis Enis. Taylor has had to earn everything he got, and Enis, well, didn't work out so well. the 1998 draft is a great standpoint for this argument. the obvious flaw being the Manning/Leaf debate. But there are also the runningback debate as well, with the phenomal Fred Taylor going AFTER Curtis Enis.

Taylor has had to earn everything he got, and Enis, well, didn’t work out so well.

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]]> By: jdbaker01 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49850 jdbaker01 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:26:27 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49850 You hit the nail on the head this time. Realistically Upshaw doesn't care whether they have a pay scale or not, he is just being hard-headed b/c he wants to trade a rookie pay scale for something else from the owners. Just as you said, "the goal of collective bargaining is to make a concession and get a concession", therefore if he is going to make a concession on rookie pay scale then he wants something in return. The bigger deal it appears that rookie pay scale is to him then the more he gets in return. You hit the nail on the head this time. Realistically Upshaw doesn’t care whether they have a pay scale or not, he is just being hard-headed b/c he wants to trade a rookie pay scale for something else from the owners. Just as you said, “the goal of collective bargaining is to make a concession and get a concession”, therefore if he is going to make a concession on rookie pay scale then he wants something in return. The bigger deal it appears that rookie pay scale is to him then the more he gets in return.

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]]> By: Matt H. http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49845 Matt H. Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:01:21 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49845 Obviously Mawae got slapped by Upshaw. The players hate the fact that unproven little piss-ant rookies get ridiculous money, but everything is a bargaining chip. The NFLPA will "give this one to the owners" at some point in exchange for something else. Obviously Mawae got slapped by Upshaw. The players hate the fact that unproven little piss-ant rookies get ridiculous money, but everything is a bargaining chip. The NFLPA will “give this one to the owners” at some point in exchange for something else.

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]]> By: Aequitas http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49840 Aequitas Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:53:08 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49840 One thing that doesn't get a lot of play - it would also help prevent a lot of holdouts and/or publicity stunts. One thing that doesn’t get a lot of play - it would also help prevent a lot of holdouts and/or publicity stunts.

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]]> By: aaeyers http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49839 aaeyers Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:53:07 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49839 If the owners want it, the players want it, the commissioner wants it, and the fans want it, I don't understand why its not getting done; just do it already. If the owners want it, the players want it, the commissioner wants it, and the fans want it, I don’t understand why its not getting done; just do it already.

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]]> By: ctfwest http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49838 ctfwest Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:50:33 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49838 I am ick of the rookies getting the money that the vet should be getting. I would wager that we would have less whining from the likes of Chad Johnson if they had thte money to begin with. I am ick of the rookies getting the money that the vet should be getting. I would wager that we would have less whining from the likes of Chad Johnson if they had thte money to begin with.

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]]> By: JimJarrell http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49834 JimJarrell Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:41:37 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49834 Dude...he pooped in his Grape Nuts? That sucks! Dude…he pooped in his Grape Nuts? That sucks!

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]]> By: king of horseheads http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49833 king of horseheads Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:40:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49833 Bunky, bunky.... how many times do I have to tell you, the LITTER BOX, the Litter Box! Bunky, bunky…. how many times do I have to tell you, the LITTER BOX, the Litter Box!

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]]> By: cantgetenough http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49830 cantgetenough Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:38:10 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49830 I just came from lunch and heard Cowherd on the radio. I was shocked to hear him actually talking about sports! Of course on the way to get lunch he was talking about hybrids and everyone going green. I guess I don't really get that show. I just came from lunch and heard Cowherd on the radio. I was shocked to hear him actually talking about sports! Of course on the way to get lunch he was talking about hybrids and everyone going green. I guess I don’t really get that show.

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]]> By: irishpat http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49825 irishpat Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:30:40 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49825 Its a setup by the NFL. They are going to try to split the NFLPA to gain more leverage. They are going to keep making statements to get Upshaw to keep making absolute statements one way or the other. Then the list of dissents continue to grow. Once the union breaks apart or away from Upshaw, the players will be lucky to get to 55%. Of course to save face, the union will claim to get 61% of some football revenues. Its a setup by the NFL. They are going to try to split the NFLPA to gain more leverage. They are going to keep making statements to get Upshaw to keep making absolute statements one way or the other. Then the list of dissents continue to grow.

Once the union breaks apart or away from Upshaw, the players will be lucky to get to 55%. Of course to save face, the union will claim to get 61% of some football revenues.

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]]> By: PatsfaninPhilly1 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49821 PatsfaninPhilly1 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:26:23 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49821 The problem is that with a hard salary cap, the more money that is paid to unproven rookies at the top of the draft, the less money that there is available for proven veterans. The pie is only so big and it stands to reason that a veteran who might have made a Pro Bowl or two but might have been a low round draft should get more than an unproven rookie drafted high. It's a crap shoot with rookies and you could get a Peyton Manning or a Ryan Leaf.... The problem is that with a hard salary cap, the more money that is paid to unproven rookies at the top of the draft,
the less money that there is available for proven veterans. The pie is only so big and it stands to reason that a
veteran who might have made a Pro Bowl or two but might have been a low round draft should get more than an unproven rookie
drafted high. It’s a crap shoot with rookies and you could get a Peyton Manning or a Ryan Leaf….

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]]> By: Chris from MD http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49818 Chris from MD Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:22:21 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49818 Maybe Upshaw promised to break Mawae's freaking neck. Maybe Upshaw promised to break Mawae’s freaking neck.

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]]> By: CoryDangerous http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49816 CoryDangerous Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:15:07 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/01/mawae-softens-stance-on-rookie-pay/#comment-49816 "and no matter how hard Gene pounds his fist about it, the reality is that the rank-and-file disagree with him." as do most of the fans. “and no matter how hard Gene pounds his fist about it, the reality is that the rank-and-file disagree with him.”

as do most of the fans.

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