Comments on: THE CIRCUS OF THE RIDICULOUS http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Wed, 03 Dec 2008 06:58:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: lightninglucci http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49853 lightninglucci Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:28:08 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49853 RonO: While I'd agree you in principle as it would apply to the free market in general, your statement contains a flaw. The free market doesn't have a salary cap. The free market doesn't equally split a portion of revenues among all business owners. The NFL blends in a little bit of socialism into its economics. Both the NFL owners and players have agreed to this modified system. So, to argue against a facet of that system based purely on the principles of captialism is incorrect. BBrophy1: Your pizza analogy hits the nail on the head. The size of the pizza doesn't change, just how you cut it up. A rookie salary cap only means the rookies get less slices. The vets get more. The whole pie still gets eaten. And that's what's wrong with the agent's scenario in the original post. He says that the rookie salaries drive up the veterans salaries. Well, if there was a rookie salary cap, the veterans would be able to ask for more of the pie, thus driving up other veterans salaries. RonO:

While I’d agree you in principle as it would apply to the free market in general, your statement contains a flaw. The free market doesn’t have a salary cap. The free market doesn’t equally split a portion of revenues among all business owners.

The NFL blends in a little bit of socialism into its economics. Both the NFL owners and players have agreed to this modified system. So, to argue against a facet of that system based purely on the principles of captialism is incorrect.

BBrophy1:

Your pizza analogy hits the nail on the head. The size of the pizza doesn’t change, just how you cut it up. A rookie salary cap only means the rookies get less slices. The vets get more. The whole pie still gets eaten.

And that’s what’s wrong with the agent’s scenario in the original post. He says that the rookie salaries drive up the veterans salaries. Well, if there was a rookie salary cap, the veterans would be able to ask for more of the pie, thus driving up other veterans salaries.

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]]> By: empty13 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49807 empty13 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:03:28 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49807 capo gino been workin over old mawae... capo gino been workin over old mawae…

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]]> By: John Cittebart http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49694 John Cittebart Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:10:20 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49694 I don't buy the argument that the rookie salaries translate into great salaries for the veterans because it’s the second contracts of the impact players who dictate the salaries for the other veterans. And the players who are franchise tagged receive salaries of the 5 salaries at the players’ position (top 10 for the transition tag). However, the top rookie salaries are not factored in because most of rookie money is in the form of bonuses—not yearly salaries. I don’t buy the argument that the rookie salaries translate into great salaries for the veterans because it’s the second contracts of the impact players who dictate the salaries for the other veterans.

And the players who are franchise tagged receive salaries of the 5 salaries at the players’ position (top 10 for the transition tag). However, the top rookie salaries are not factored in because most of rookie money is in the form of bonuses—not yearly salaries.

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]]> By: JimmySmith http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49680 JimmySmith Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:10:31 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49680 If Gene Upshaw were smart (and there is no evidence of that being the case), he would seek compromise on the rookie pay system in favor of keeping money elsewhere in the total deal. It is indefensible and yet Upshaw is digging in his heels on the one issue where he could be demonstating reasonable thinking. What an idiot. If Gene Upshaw were smart (and there is no evidence of that being the case), he would seek compromise on the rookie pay system in favor of keeping money elsewhere in the total deal. It is indefensible and yet Upshaw is digging in his heels on the one issue where he could be demonstating reasonable thinking. What an idiot.

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]]> By: philwauke http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49639 philwauke Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:09:29 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49639 Hey, I earned my money! Ryan Leaf Hey, I earned my money!
Ryan Leaf

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]]> By: al8085 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49632 al8085 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:48:56 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49632 It's these big pay days that cause the owners to use the PSL's to help pay for them. Joe Fan will continue to pay for the Rookie big bucks. Not that if the salaries were lower the PSL's would be revoked, I'm not that naive :o) It’s these big pay days that cause the owners to use the PSL’s to help pay for them. Joe Fan will continue to pay for the Rookie big bucks. Not that if the salaries were lower the PSL’s would be revoked, I’m not that naive :o)

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]]> By: GeauxSaints12 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49628 GeauxSaints12 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:37:40 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49628 I think this whole issue about a rookie cap is going to be a big mess. Your going to have vets complaining about more money, even though some of them don't deserve it. Olders players who are in there thirties wanting to get payed like players in there twenties. Your going to have rookie players play one year, and if they do good, demand for more money. I think this is going to cause more hold outs then ever before. But its the owners fault this is even happening. I think this whole issue about a rookie cap is going to be a big mess. Your going to have vets complaining about more money, even though some of them don’t deserve it. Olders players who are in there thirties wanting to get payed like players in there twenties. Your going to have rookie players play one year, and if they do good, demand for more money. I think this is going to cause more hold outs then ever before. But its the owners fault this is even happening.

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]]> By: Beckster http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49571 Beckster Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:19:18 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49571 Should be a cap for rookie salaries at a certain amount like the NBA. But their also should be an opt out clause for the player after the first year if the rookie out preforms the contract. The contract Long signed is ridiculous for a player who has never played a down in the NFL I agree. But a player like Adrian Peterson who out preformed 95% of the veteran running backs last year should not be stuck playing for a 3 million a year contract maximum when he has proven himself as an elite running back. Should be a cap for rookie salaries at a certain amount like the NBA. But their also should be an opt out clause for the player after the first year if the rookie out preforms the contract. The contract Long signed is ridiculous for a player who has never played a down in the NFL I agree. But a player like Adrian Peterson who out preformed 95% of the veteran running backs last year should not be stuck playing for a 3 million a year contract maximum when he has proven himself as an elite running back.

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]]> By: billsfanaddict http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49567 billsfanaddict Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:03:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49567 Is Goodell a good guy? No, he won't necessarily fight for retired players, he doesnt seem to mind owners giving fans the squeeze, he cleaned the Patsies flim trail and he works for (is the puppet of) the owners. Sure All Thats True. But when he speaks (on most subjects) he can use facts & reason, he thinks before shouting/insulting, he has put a fear into the players that was sorely needed, he seems to care about the nfl's image & viability (upshaw couldnt possibly care less), he has the ability to do things that are in the interest of others & not constantly for him, himself & he and he was thrown into a bad position by Tagliabue & the owners (except Mike Brown & Ralph Wilson). He isn't a puppet of the agents which unlike the owners couldn't care less about anyone or anything, the lesser of two evils I'd say. An agent will drop a client if he wants to do a deal that helps the team in almost anyway. Owners practically force thugs to clean up their act or they'll cut them and black-ball them. You think agents care at all if players volunteer in their communinties, no ******* way, thats free work, they dont get a slice of that pie. But owners need their players to be (somewhat) decent human beings for the most part otherwise people may get sick of their antics & stop supporting the crap they do/represent. The agents would roll the bills so players could snort their life savings away, as long as its not a contract-extension season. Owners want winning teams for various reasons but agents could care less as long as their clients are the top paid at their positions. He certainly aint perfect but I'll take goodell's side over upshaws any day, purely based on the fact that he can/does attempt to represent more interests than just his wealth & well-being. RON0 open your eyes, upshaw is as corrupt as they get & in no other business do the players or laborers make more money than the owners, investors or risk-takers. Is Goodell a good guy? No, he won’t necessarily fight for retired players, he doesnt seem to mind owners giving fans the squeeze, he cleaned the Patsies flim trail and he works for (is the puppet of) the owners.

Sure All Thats True. But when he speaks (on most subjects) he can use facts & reason, he thinks before shouting/insulting, he has put a fear into the players that was sorely needed, he seems to care about the nfl’s image & viability (upshaw couldnt possibly care less), he has the ability to do things that are in the interest of others & not constantly for him, himself & he and he was thrown into a bad position by Tagliabue & the owners (except Mike Brown & Ralph Wilson).

He isn’t a puppet of the agents which unlike the owners couldn’t care less about anyone or anything, the lesser of two evils I’d say. An agent will drop a client if he wants to do a deal that helps the team in almost anyway. Owners practically force thugs to clean up their act or they’ll cut them and black-ball them. You think agents care at all if players volunteer in their communinties, no ******* way, thats free work, they dont get a slice of that pie. But owners need their players to be (somewhat) decent human beings for the most part otherwise people may get sick of their antics & stop supporting the crap they do/represent. The agents would roll the bills so players could snort their life savings away, as long as its not a contract-extension season. Owners want winning teams for various reasons but agents could care less as long as their clients are the top paid at their positions.

He certainly aint perfect but I’ll take goodell’s side over upshaws any day, purely based on the fact that he can/does attempt to represent more interests than just his wealth & well-being. RON0 open your eyes, upshaw is as corrupt as they get & in no other business do the players or laborers make more money than the owners, investors or risk-takers.

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]]> By: Beckster http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49561 Beckster Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:54:21 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49561 Andrews cheated on his girlfriend? Well what do you expect he has been hanging out with Belicheat to much. Come on Patsy's if your going to cheat you guys need to learn how to not get caught. Andrews cheated on his girlfriend? Well what do you expect he has been hanging out with Belicheat to much. Come on Patsy’s if your going to cheat you guys need to learn how to not get caught.

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]]> By: svnrdr http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49557 svnrdr Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:45:55 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49557 Ron0, I'm not certain about which part of the "rest of America" you are referring to, but I can certainly tell you that there is NO other job that I can think of that pays an individual who has never produced at a professional level more money (not to mention guaranteed money) than others in that particular industry. Not only that, but what I don't understand is why Gene Upshaw continues represent these COLLEGE players (because they are NOT NFL players nor are they represented by the union until they sign their rookie contract) with greater fervor than the current and former players. Ron0,

I’m not certain about which part of the “rest of America” you are referring to, but I can certainly tell you that there is NO other job that I can think of that pays an individual who has never produced at a professional level more money (not to mention guaranteed money) than others in that particular industry.

Not only that, but what I don’t understand is why Gene Upshaw continues represent these COLLEGE players (because they are NOT NFL players nor are they represented by the union until they sign their rookie contract) with greater fervor than the current and former players.

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]]> By: billsfanaddict http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49547 billsfanaddict Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:31:44 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49547 TED i like the big city mayor thing except he's more like the "victorious leader" Mugabe of zimbabwe. If someone stands upto you, says your corrupt or runs against you, then elminate them & everyone close to them to solidify your power. TED i like the big city mayor thing except he’s more like the “victorious leader” Mugabe of zimbabwe. If someone stands upto you, says your corrupt or runs against you, then elminate them & everyone close to them to solidify your power.

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]]> By: Kaotic http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49542 Kaotic Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:21:54 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49542 Upshaw sucks. He should be deposed as soon as possible. Upshaw sucks. He should be deposed as soon as possible.

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]]> By: T Romo http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49538 T Romo Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:17:09 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49538 I nominate billsfanaddict for post of the year! I nominate billsfanaddict for post of the year!

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]]> By: Ted http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49537 Ted Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:16:18 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49537 Upshaw reminds me of a big city mayor. He is an idiot, corrupt, and is running the city into the ground. Everyone knows these things, but every time he gets reelected. Upshaw reminds me of a big city mayor. He is an idiot, corrupt, and is running the city into the ground. Everyone knows these things, but every time he gets reelected.

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]]> By: Fade 2 Black http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49536 Fade 2 Black Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:15:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49536 Wow... Strong negative feedback around here about Gene, huhhh?!? LOL Gene is in the pocket of ownership at all times,except when he can solidify his position by doing otherwise. But he never seems to really stand for his rank and file guys... F2B Wow… Strong negative feedback around here about Gene, huhhh?!? LOL

Gene is in the pocket of ownership at all times,except when he can solidify his position by doing otherwise. But he never seems to really stand for his rank and file guys…

F2B

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]]> By: billsfanaddict http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49530 billsfanaddict Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:47:45 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49530 I detest Gene Upshaw and believe that he is one of the most most pompus, arrogant, uninformed leaders of Anything this planet has seen in recent history. He blocks people from advancing through the ranks, he makes statements that belittle anyone who disagrees with him, he disagrees with the majority of the people he represents, the majority of his public statements have little-no factual wording but lots of animosity & strong language within which makes him come off like Roger Clemens or David Stern and he violates or attempts to circumvent rules/regulations/ideas which he invokes into agreements & league law. He will do anything & everything to keep everyone he can in the dark during the upcoming rounds of CBA negotiations b/c he wants to stay in power until he keels over & dies b/c he doesn't give a rat-@$$ about anything except the 24karat gold lining of his pockets. If not teaching, not letting others experience things, not helping his chain-of-command officers, cripples the players union he won't give a **** b/c he will stubbornly hold onto every scrap he can so that the sports agency (CAA i believe) that represents him keeps feeding him more money per year than his own job salary does. I hate the very essence of his being, he doesn't care about retired players whatsoever & does (almost) less than whats absolutely minimally acceptable in helping veterns and/or retirees with anything at all. He is the epitomy of greed. If he could he would clone his DNA (without his wife's if possible) so that Gene Upshaw 2.0 (not jr) could attempt to strangle every dime out of the league possible with no regard to fairness of investment (of which the owners contibute billions) or giving back anything to the community which pays 100's of millions in tax dollars he would be the happiest man in the universe. If it were within his power stadiums would be owned by the players agents & you wouldnt be allowed to attend a game without an authorized tax form proving you make @least 7 digits (without decimals) annually. GTH Gene Upshaw! I detest Gene Upshaw and believe that he is one of the most most pompus, arrogant, uninformed leaders of Anything this planet has seen in recent history.

He blocks people from advancing through the ranks, he makes statements that belittle anyone who disagrees with him, he disagrees with the majority of the people he represents, the majority of his public statements have little-no factual wording but lots of animosity & strong language within which makes him come off like Roger Clemens or David Stern and he violates or attempts to circumvent rules/regulations/ideas which he invokes into agreements & league law.

He will do anything & everything to keep everyone he can in the dark during the upcoming rounds of CBA negotiations b/c he wants to stay in power until he keels over & dies b/c he doesn’t give a rat-@$$ about anything except the 24karat gold lining of his pockets. If not teaching, not letting others experience things, not helping his chain-of-command officers, cripples the players union he won’t give a **** b/c he will stubbornly hold onto every scrap he can so that the sports agency (CAA i believe) that represents him keeps feeding him more money per year than his own job salary does.

I hate the very essence of his being, he doesn’t care about retired players whatsoever & does (almost) less than whats absolutely minimally acceptable in helping veterns and/or retirees with anything at all. He is the epitomy of greed. If he could he would clone his DNA (without his wife’s if possible) so that Gene Upshaw 2.0 (not jr) could attempt to strangle every dime out of the league possible with no regard to fairness of investment (of which the owners contibute billions) or giving back anything to the community which pays 100’s of millions in tax dollars he would be the happiest man in the universe. If it were within his power stadiums would be owned by the players agents & you wouldnt be allowed to attend a game without an authorized tax form proving you make @least 7 digits (without decimals) annually. GTH Gene Upshaw!

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]]> By: BBrophy1 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49524 BBrophy1 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:22:41 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49524 It's almost like you ave to explain it to Upshaw using 5th grade math metaphors. The rookies are getting 3 slices of pizza and veterans are struggling to get 1 slice. And Upshaw is saying you can't stop them from getting as much pizza as they can even though the owners aren't providing any more or any less pizza than they have been all along It’s almost like you ave to explain it to Upshaw using 5th grade math metaphors. The rookies are getting 3 slices of pizza and veterans are struggling to get 1 slice. And Upshaw is saying you can’t stop them from getting as much pizza as they can even though the owners aren’t providing any more or any less pizza than they have been all along

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]]> By: dlmcc0505 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49513 dlmcc0505 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:17:19 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49513 Why cant these players just replace Upshaw. Its obvious that the veterans arent happy with him. I dont blame them, the rookie pay scale is a joke. The NBA has a pretty good scale where they make a low amount for the first few years. If they prove themselves they sign max contracts at the end. You dont hear much complaining over there. If the people this guy is supposed to represent arent happy with him. then he should be replaced just like anyone else in management would be Why cant these players just replace Upshaw. Its obvious that the veterans arent happy with him. I dont blame them, the rookie pay scale is a joke. The NBA has a pretty good scale where they make a low amount for the first few years. If they prove themselves they sign max contracts at the end. You dont hear much complaining over there. If the people this guy is supposed to represent arent happy with him. then he should be replaced just like anyone else in management would be

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]]> By: Fade 2 Black http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49512 Fade 2 Black Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:12:15 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49512 Hey Mr. Mike, Upshaw is only sucking up to the Young Bucks because they will be around longer to support his Directorship. The Veterans won't be around as long so, to Upshaw, they can pound sand. And the retirees? They are yesterday's news so, to Upshaw, they can rot. That pretty much seems to reflect Gene Upshaw's attitude, doesn't it? He ignores the health and support needs of retirees, and does little respect the veteran salary and security needs. I say give Troy Vincent a shot, and soon! F2B Hey Mr. Mike,

Upshaw is only sucking up to the Young Bucks because they will be around longer to support his Directorship.

The Veterans won’t be around as long so, to Upshaw, they can pound sand.

And the retirees? They are yesterday’s news so, to Upshaw, they can rot.

That pretty much seems to reflect Gene Upshaw’s attitude, doesn’t it? He ignores the health and support needs of retirees, and does little respect the veteran salary and security needs.

I say give Troy Vincent a shot, and soon!

F2B

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]]> By: anthonyf http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49511 anthonyf Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:05:33 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49511 The whole point upshaw is exactly what you said. They are not "entitled" to anything because they have never suited up for an NFL game. This guy is amazing....... The whole point upshaw is exactly what you said. They are not “entitled” to anything because they have never suited up for an NFL game. This guy is amazing…….

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]]> By: RonO http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49510 RonO Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:05:21 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49510 Florio, Upshaw is saying let the free market decide rookie pay and not some set of rules imposed by others according to their agendas. For example, Goodall only cares about the owners and wants to make them even richer than they are today, he doesn't give a flying fk for older players. Upshaw's way is the way the rest of America works in case you haven't noticed. To artificially constrain anybody's salary is a pinko, dirtball commie way of thinking. How would you like it if I decided bloggers got paid too much compared with real journalists and limited what you could earn??? Bet you'd be the first one whining to your congressman. Florio, Upshaw is saying let the free market decide rookie pay and not some set of rules imposed by others according to their agendas. For example, Goodall only cares about the owners and wants to make them even richer than they are today, he doesn’t give a flying fk for older players. Upshaw’s way is the way the rest of America works in case you haven’t noticed. To artificially constrain anybody’s salary is a pinko, dirtball commie way of thinking. How would you like it if I decided bloggers got paid too much compared with real journalists and limited what you could earn??? Bet you’d be the first one whining to your congressman.

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]]> By: svnrdr http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49507 svnrdr Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:00:57 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/06/30/the-circus-of-the-ridiculous/#comment-49507 Gene Upshaw is a box of tools; not to be confused with a tool(box). Gene Upshaw is a box of tools; not to be confused with a tool(box).

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