With the lidless red eye of the media now focusing on ten-day-old evidence of then-fresh cheating allegations regarding the Patriots, it would be easy to shrug at talk of possible rules violations relating to the use of players from the injured reserve list in practice.
But we’ve gotten some feedback on the situation, unsolicited, from someone not in the media. Instead, a high-level exec with a team other than the Patriots has shared some opinions about the differences between the videotaping of defensive coaching signals and the practice of practicing with players who have been placed on IR.
Here’s the full text of the message that we received:
“I honestly feel like the IR issue is a way bigger issue than taping signals. I always felt that was overblown because everyone was doing it in some way (i.e. with a scout in the press box, etc). However, the IR thing is huge. In terms of getting players ready to play for the future, it’s invaluable. You can stash players on the IR, protect them from waivers, and get them to practice, develop and improve. Plus it allows you to rest your veterans during practice. In terms of competitiveness, from an overall team standpoint, that’s a much bigger advantage than taping signals.
“The fact that the Commish wouldn’t take any further action, to me, is incredible. It’s a totally separate deal and MUCH more valuable than taping signals, in my opinion.”
For now, the evidence regarding this practice by the Patriots is limited. But at a time when Matt Walsh’s credibility remains suspect (except when he says that there was no videotape of the Rams’ walk-through prior to Super Bowl XXXVI), the fact that former NFL player Ross Tucker has spoken out about his first-hand experiences in this regard makes us wonder whether folks in the league office agree with the assessment that our source provided and, if so, whether the matter will be pursued.
It’s possible that the Patriots weren’t doing it extensively. It’s possible that other teams are doing it as well. But if it is that big of a deal and if it’s happening in one or more NFL cities without detection or correction, then it needs to be explored.
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May 23rd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Jacobs has publicly said he sold tens of thousands of dollars worth of performance-enhancing drugs to former Dallas Cowboys lineman Matt Lehr in 2006 and 2007. Lehr has also played for Tampa Bay and Atlanta.
Is this more important than “Spygate?”
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Rating: 3.4 / 5 with 13 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Would be people be happy if Belichick is hung out in front of FeSpn, in his grey hoodie.. Would that make people happy, give me a break alreay.. Ross Tucker , wow ,what pultez prize winner he is.. 1 yr he was there… Ass
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Rating: 2.5 / 5 with 15 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
OK, let me get this straight. Stashing undrafted free agents on IR is way, way worse than videotaping. Why? Because it allows you to develop young players who may help you in the future. Yet, when people such as Mark Schlereth talk about “cheating” in the Super Bowls, and someone mentions the Broncos’ salary car shenanigans, he claims it’s not a big deal because the Broncos would have paid the likes of Elway and Davis anyway, and that it only helped them with the ACTIVE players on the back end of the roster. Other commentators agree with him that videotaping is much worse than paying players under the table.
So, given the fact that the Broncos only lost a 3rd rounder while the Patriots lost a first, how does this jibe?
Am I supposed to believe that the veterans signed by the Broncos with the big cap savings from cheating are somehow less valuable to the team than the UDFA’s the Patriots developed while on IR.
Preposterous. I can understand that a reporter would have to report what an unidentified executive writes, but it’s obvious here the guy is just trying to cause trouble, and nothing prevents the reporter from characterizing the executive’s efforts as presposterous.
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Rating: 3.15 / 5 with 17 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:23 pm
So is jaywalking.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 15 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
LOL. Time to pop a top, pass around the popcorn, kick back, and watch the latest episode of “The Homer Pats Fans Show”.
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Rating: 3.2 / 5 with 21 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
It’s definitely more important than Spygate, but this isn’t flashy at all. ESPN’s gonna have to try real hard to make this attractive to the average fan.
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Rating: 2.75 / 5 with 7 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:42 pm
@ GR365 says:
“Jacobs has publicly said he sold tens of thousands of dollars worth of performance-enhancing drugs to former Dallas Cowboys lineman Matt Lehr in 2006 and 2007. Lehr has also played for Tampa Bay and Atlanta.”
haha, here we go again. First and foremost, he’s a “former Dallas Cowboys lineman”. No mention that he’s a “current New Orleans Saint” or that the Cowboys cut him in 2003, which happens to be a few years before 2006 or 2007 on most calendars.
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Rating: 3.1 / 5 with 9 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
What a let down Roger Goodell has been. He has attempted to clean up the image of the players, but has really dropped the ball by not suspending BB. How many more ways is this guy going to get caught cheating before he’s banned from the NFL? He has shown the same disregard for the rules as Pacman, Chris Henry and every other thug in the NFL. Yet he continues to get a pass. Wonder when Jesse Jackson is going to butt in and make it a race issue? White coaches don’t get suspended but black players do? It’s bound to happen sooner or later….
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 10 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Considering the player most like being the subject of Tucker’s article was Ryan Claridge who was cut by the Patriots prior to the next season (and is now out of the league all together), how did the Pats get an advantage by developing him in the future? Also, do you think they rested Tedy Bruschi or Mike Vrabel to give Claridge reps? If anything, he would spell minutes of rest time for back up players who would never see the field.
I can’t wait for the Pats haters to use this unnamed executive’s words to make practicing players on IR as a huge deal and then ignore the fact that he said that Spygate was much ado about nothing and taping defensive signals is no big deal and the whole situation was blown out of proportion.
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Rating: 3.25 / 5 with 15 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
i agree with Bradysheroes (sarcastically, cause that’s the most fun way to agree).
I had a pretty rough year in 2002 when i just couldn’t stay on the right side of the rules. I was convicted of a bunch of stuff, and then as i served out my sentence apparently a whole bunch of other charges came up. I was all “hey guys, i’m already in jail. come on, ease up all ready”. And i’m no regular slouch either. I once hit through the cycle in t-ball as a kid, so i’ve got mad sports skills.
but i guess the thinking is that if you break 10 seperate rules then you get punished 10 different times, regardless of your skills. However, I’m pretty sure that once you fill your card up with 10 offenses you get the 11th for free. Maybe Bill has a full card.
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Rating: 2.15 / 5 with 7 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Mike, isn’t the big story here the fact that a high level NFL exec has gone on record stating that when it comes to taping signals “everyone was doing it in some way.” That’s huge. How can you miss that? It would also seem to make Goodell either incompetent or a liar.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 13 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:54 pm
BTW, if this high level executive feels that Spygate was way overblown, wouldn’t he think that the Patriots were levelled too harsh of a penalty originally? Maybe Goodell agrees and that is why he isn’t going to fine the Patriots anymore.
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Rating: 1.8 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
This reminds me of the time that the Packers put rookie 3rd round draft pick kicker Brett Conway on IR before the season started with a strained quad after (undrafted waiver pick-up) Ryan Longwell beat him out of the job.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
My thoughts on the subject?….ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Rating: 2.4 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:57 pm
@ gallaghedj311 says:
“What a let down Roger Goodell has been. He has attempted to clean up the image of the players, but has really dropped the ball by not suspending BB.”
It’s ok though, he got real tough with Wade Wilson.
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Rating: 2 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:57 pm
I also agree with Robo769.
I mean when i was facing all those charges one of them was trespassing on private property. But you know the whole time i was hidding in the girls shower room of the sorority house only the fat chicks got naked. Since i didn’t get any benefit from that i argued that i shouldn’t serve any time. Heck, seeing so many ugly swamp donkeys should have been punishement enough. Am i right??? you know it! high five!
well… the judge disagreed, and my high five was left quite hanging.
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Rating: 2.4 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
In response to upstater:
“Am I supposed to believe that the veterans signed by the Broncos with the big cap savings from cheating are somehow less valuable to the team than the UDFA’s the Patriots developed while on IR.”
From what I read about the Broncos and their cap deal was that they guys that were involved only deffered payments, they were still on the books (cap value) for their total value but the team was strapped for cash and they just reached an agreement with those guys to pay them later. They did not have more cap room to sign more players.
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Rating: 3.25 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Longest - off season - EVER! Someone wake me for preseason. On another note, Vox, how much the Cowboys paying you to respond to EVERY Dallas mention on this site? You must be hoot at parties.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:06 pm
@ bushy says:
“Mike, isn’t the big story here the fact that a high level NFL exec has gone on record stating that when it comes to taping signals “everyone was doing it in some way.” That’s huge. How can you miss that?”
What does “doing it in some way” mean? Either you’re videotaping signals or you are not videotaping signals.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:07 pm
bushy,
I agree. It is good to see that someone in the league has admitted even annonymously that Spygate was not a big deal and everyone is doing what Belichick is doing in some way shape or form.
I actually agree with him that practicing a player on IR is a worse crime than videotaping signals. Not as bad as tampering which the 49ers got punished for recently. So the Pats were definitely overpunished originally with Spygate. I guess Goodell is making a make up call.
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Rating: 1.8 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Let’s see, first stealing signals was huge. Then it wasn’t that big, but taping a walk-through was huge. Now there’s no walk-through tape and everybody tries to steal signals, but a player practicing on IR is huge.
If this exec feels so strongly about the players on IR, why hasn’t he had the league ever look in to it before? And more importantly, why does he feel the need to say this anonymously through the Rumor Mill, without even being asked for his opinion, and not go on the record with his comments?
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Rating: 2.65 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
It’s only “bigger than Spygate” because Spygate was such a minor competitive advantage. You executive should be a little more informed about the situation though. Goodell has said they will investigate the IR issue, he’s just not continuing to investigate the taping.
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Rating: 2.6 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:10 pm
This can be misconstrued easily- and the e-mail does- because the implication is that players are being stashed on the IR, not really the case today. The rule is intended as an anti-stash rule, but it is peripheral. The league where the IR is a joke is the NBA.
In the NFL a few years ago, they decided to crack down on stashing, so they instituted procedures where anyone who is on the IR must be examined at random by a doctor sent from the league. If you are caught with a bogus injury, you lose the player and a whole lot more. The 49ers learned that this was a serious rule a few years back. If someone today stashed and didn’t get caught, it means that the NFL has toi tighten up a bit more, but they do take the issue very seriously.
What I think they are talking about is where someone has a legitimate injury, such as a knee ligament tear, then runs plays to work out after recovering. If that is widespread, the league should address it, but I suspect that it is not any kind of epidemic because the enforecement is done and is quite punitive.
The right way to deal with it is for a player to be “waived-injured”. Last year, thta is what the Vikings did with TE Braden Jones, who passed through waivers, got a financial settlement from the team for the injury, then re-signed. The other teams can decide if they want to put the player on the roster as damaged goods or wait for him to recover.
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Rating: 3.2 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
This just isn’t ever gonan end until the commish steps in and says “Ok, enough is enough.”
Maybe the Pats did this….maybe other teams have done it….and maybe the Broncos broke the salary cap rules…….maybe they didn’t. But this crap is really getting old now. Any former player can turn around now and say his former team did “this and that” ….it doesn’t always make it true. Right now…it’s pile on the Patriots time. Has anyone ever even HEARD of thsi Tucker guy? I haven’t. Either way………..time to move on guys…….much like the Mitchell Report violators….the commish should say (and thsi is for ALL TEAMS”…….we have had enough of the accusations being tossed around…..anything that happened prior to 2008 is now “excused for all teams”. ANYTHIGN THAT HAPPENS FROM HERE ON OUT….WITH proof…NOT JUST SOME HAS BEEN PLAYER TRYING TO GET REVENGE ON A FORMER TEAM. The piling on crap is getting old……………and anything with the Patriots name on it seems to get publicized …….so let’s just end this stuff , much the way MLB did…..
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Rating: 2.6 / 5 with 8 rating(s)
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
You can debate all you want which offense is more blatant (I have my opinion but…), the real story here is the pattern of behavior by the Patriots under Belichick and Goodell’s lack of willingness to take a stand as strong a stance as he took against the players.
As someone mentioned earlier, the race issue is almost certaintly to come up if Goodell doesn’t sit Belichick down at least for a couple games just for appearance sake.
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Rating: 2.8 / 5 with 5 rating(s)