Comments on: UPSHAW WANTS MORE INFO http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:03:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: empty13 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-34167 empty13 Fri, 23 May 2008 17:21:42 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-34167 capo gino asking for more info: dammit kevin how are we goin to pull my fat ass out of the fire? capo gino asking for more info:

dammit kevin how are we goin to pull my fat ass out of the fire?

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]]> By: icase81 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-34037 icase81 Fri, 23 May 2008 14:35:47 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-34037 How many privately held companies share financial info with a union? ... oh right, none of them. How many privately held companies share financial info with a union? … oh right, none of them.

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]]> By: lestat67 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33935 lestat67 Fri, 23 May 2008 12:10:48 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33935 I have been a union firefighter for over 20 years and involved in many contract negotiations. While the fire service is nothing like the NFL, employment costs are 85-90% of total budget, having access to the employers financial data is essential to good faith negotiations. In our case the information is public record and easy to obtain, in the NFL not so much. One possible scenario is that the NFL locks out the players while claiming poor mouth but refusing to allow access to its books. This is exactly the type of thing that could place their anti-trust exemption in place. Can anyone say, "Arlene Spector?" I believe the baseball situation from years back is a good example. With that being said, in my opinion, the NFLPA would do good to agree to a rookie salary cap and a more reasonable cut of revenue around 55%. I have been a union firefighter for over 20 years and involved in many contract negotiations. While the fire service is nothing like the NFL, employment costs are 85-90% of total budget, having access to the employers financial data is essential to good faith negotiations. In our case the information is public record and easy to obtain, in the NFL not so much.

One possible scenario is that the NFL locks out the players while claiming poor mouth but refusing to allow access to its books. This is exactly the type of thing that could place their anti-trust exemption in place. Can anyone say, “Arlene Spector?”

I believe the baseball situation from years back is a good example. With that being said, in my opinion, the NFLPA would do good to agree to a rookie salary cap and a more reasonable cut of revenue around 55%.

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]]> By: RonO http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33759 RonO Thu, 22 May 2008 21:34:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33759 $18 million seems way too low. Shouldn't that read $180 million? $18 million seems way too low. Shouldn’t that read $180 million?

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]]> By: neil77 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33753 neil77 Thu, 22 May 2008 21:16:06 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33753 I'd also say that Upshaw's contention that Jamarcus Russel's deal helps veteran players by driving the market is non-sensical. If the salary cap is a fixed % of revenues, then every dollar committed to high picks that don't pan out is a $ that proven players never got a chance to see. I’d also say that Upshaw’s contention that Jamarcus Russel’s deal helps veteran players by driving the market is non-sensical. If the salary cap is a fixed % of revenues, then every dollar committed to high picks that don’t pan out is a $ that proven players never got a chance to see.

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]]> By: filbertkiwi71 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33747 filbertkiwi71 Thu, 22 May 2008 21:01:52 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33747 If the teams were really having a hard time financially, wouldn't they be opening up the books for all the world to see? If the teams were really having a hard time financially, wouldn’t they be opening up the books for all the world to see?

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]]> By: neil77 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33739 neil77 Thu, 22 May 2008 20:50:31 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33739 If it's only $18M in operating income per team I don't know why the union would think they should get a higher %. That's not the 'bottom line' - you still have to subtract interest and taxes to know how much $ teams really make. If it’s only $18M in operating income per team I don’t know why the union would think they should get a higher %. That’s not the ‘bottom line’ - you still have to subtract interest and taxes to know how much $ teams really make.

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]]> By: warpstone http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33735 warpstone Thu, 22 May 2008 20:45:23 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33735 Isn't the reference to "slapdicks" a blatant clue that the league insider here is Brian Billick? Isn’t the reference to “slapdicks” a blatant clue that the league insider here is Brian Billick?

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]]> By: ProudPapa http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33729 ProudPapa Thu, 22 May 2008 20:37:18 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33729 Not to get too technical, but as an accountant, I need to point something out. (Oh, who am I kidding? If Florio is going to subject us to non-stop legal analysis, I can throw out some finance talk). Operating income is different from Net Income. Operating income generally does not include debt service (i.e. principal and interest payments). Given the costs associated with purchasing a team or building a stadium these days, $18 million more than likely isn’t going to cover the debt service. Let’s say a team has $250 million in debt (which is relatively modest considering the cost to buy a team these days is nearly $1 billion). Let’s assume the debt has an interest rate of 8.5%. That’s $21.25 million in interest alone each year. If your team is lucky enough to have been owned by the same family for 30 years and had the city pay for the new stadium (although the team usually has to put in something), they can probably get by with $18 million without a problem. But I’m betting most teams aren’t in that situation. Not to get too technical, but as an accountant, I need to point something out. (Oh, who am I kidding? If Florio is going to subject us to non-stop legal analysis, I can throw out some finance talk).

Operating income is different from Net Income. Operating income generally does not include debt service (i.e. principal and interest payments). Given the costs associated with purchasing a team or building a stadium these days, $18 million more than likely isn’t going to cover the debt service. Let’s say a team has $250 million in debt (which is relatively modest considering the cost to buy a team these days is nearly $1 billion). Let’s assume the debt has an interest rate of 8.5%. That’s $21.25 million in interest alone each year.

If your team is lucky enough to have been owned by the same family for 30 years and had the city pay for the new stadium (although the team usually has to put in something), they can probably get by with $18 million without a problem. But I’m betting most teams aren’t in that situation.

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]]> By: luke65 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33724 luke65 Thu, 22 May 2008 20:21:15 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33724 Long ago, I was in Restaurant management. Our target labor costs at the time were 20% of gross revenue. If the players are getting 59%, and then you have to add in coaches, FO types, and all the non-glory positions (secretaries, cooks, janitors, etc) that keep a team running, it seems plausible that labor costs could be in excess of 70% for NFL teams. How does this compare to the other major leagues? Ultimatley, the owners have a right to make a profit larger than the highest paid employee on the payroll. It is, after all, their money that allows all those others to get paid 100's of 1000's of dollars or more. Long ago, I was in Restaurant management. Our target labor costs at the time were 20% of gross revenue. If the players are getting 59%, and then you have to add in coaches, FO types, and all the non-glory positions (secretaries, cooks, janitors, etc) that keep a team running, it seems plausible that labor costs could be in excess of 70% for NFL teams.
How does this compare to the other major leagues?

Ultimatley, the owners have a right to make a profit larger than the highest paid employee on the payroll. It is, after all, their money that allows all those others to get paid 100’s of 1000’s of dollars or more.

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]]> By: filbertkiwi71 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33692 filbertkiwi71 Thu, 22 May 2008 19:22:01 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33692 What is the difference between "slapdicks" and "cockeyed"? I hope circumcision isn't involved.;-) What is the difference between “slapdicks” and “cockeyed”? I hope circumcision isn’t involved.;-)

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]]> By: CowboysFan http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33684 CowboysFan Thu, 22 May 2008 19:07:16 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/22/upshaw-wants-more-info/#comment-33684 I'm not sure what a "slapdick" slide is, but I'm very afraid of it. I’m not sure what a “slapdick” slide is, but I’m very afraid of it.

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