Hoe Joesixpack, let’s see your evidence to back your claim. I’m sure i’ll be waiting a while because non exists. Funny how you’ll cling to Jimmy Johnson but Walsh is the bad guy LOL. Shoot the messenger delivering the message you don’t want to hear, and praise the guy delivering the message you DO want to hear……even if he’s admitting that he’s a cheater also. That’s how far you guys have sunk. Funny how the rest of the NFL coaching world hasn’t exactly lined up to back Johnson’s assertion. LOL.

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It’s ok - I’ve seen many fans like you who haven’t actually read the memo or the rule. They’re often surprised to find that the NFL admitted a need to clarify their own rule in 2006. Some people can actually even read that memo clarifying the rule and then deny the rule was clarified.

Now that we all know from other coaches and other sources that other teams were doing the exact same thing as Belichick was it’s REALLY difficult for them to accept that

I know it really hurt a lot of people bad when they were hoping for a walk through tape, only to learn the whole story was a fabrication by the media

And I know you couldn’t bring yourself to answer the question as to whether you think its fair to clarify a rule in 2006 and then attempt to punish a team for an infraction in 2001.

But most of all, I know you really shouldn’t let sports or people on the internet get to you like that.

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You really are an ignorant, stupid moron, aren’t you?! How can you not actually read what I wrote. My point is what the Pats and BB did WAS ILLEGAL PRIOR TO 2006. THE MEMO DID NOT MAKE IT ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL THE MEMO DID WAS TRY TO SEND A WAKE UP CALL TO ALL THE CHEATERS THAT THEY BETTER STOP CHEATING. THIS IS AKIN TO A COP PULLING YOU OVER AND ONLY GIVING YOU A WARNING WHEN YOU ARE SPEEDING. YOU KNOW YOU ARE SPEEDING, YOU JUST MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION. THE NEXT TIME THAT COP PULLS YOU OVER, YOU ARE GETTING A TICKET. THATS WHAT HAPPENED. YOUR PRECIOUS LITTLE PATSIES CHEATED AND GOT CAUGHT. IT WAS CHEATING PRIOR, DURING AND AFTER 2006. THEY WERE WARNED TO STOP (ALONG WITH THE OTHER 31 TEAMS) IN 2006, THEN WHEN THEY GOT CAUGHT IN 2007, THE CRAP HIT THE FAN. END OF STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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May 20th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I’ll give the Broncos as also deserving an asterisk, but the colts and bears are speculation. Let’s give them out based on fact.

1998 & 99 Denver Brocos *

2001 New England Patriots **
2003 New England Patriots **
2004 New England Patriots **

* caught in salary cap scandal
** caught and admitted to cheating.

TKBean - current - yes even today, the rules say that taping of signal calling is legal in an area that is fully enclosed and not accessible to the team during the game (making clear even today that ONLY game time use of those tapes is prohibited… post game use is allowed)

Let’s say that the team that you’re a fan of followed those rules to the letter.

Now let’s say that tomorrow the Commissioner “clarifies” that rule to make clear that NO taping, whatsoever, regardless of location or when it is intended to be used, is prohibited.

Would you say that your team was cheating? They were in compliance with the rule up until the time that the Commissioner clarified what he obviously felt was an unclear rule. Once he clarified the rule, were there past activities, before he clarified it, cheating?

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Hey Pats fans, you deserve this and your team deserves this. Your team deserves it because they cheated. You deserve it because you’ve been the most annoying collection of braggarts professional football fandom has ever seen. Your team did this to themselves. This is Karma coming back around for you buys. You earned it. Now take your medicine and shut your mouths.

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1. Pats fans are a hoot. I just read the Hearld article about the new CBs, written by Karen Guregian, and EVERY SINGLE COMMENT — 23 to date — was about Tomase. NOTHING about the CBs whatsoever.”

wait…dammit…

I’m not sure how I missed this…you just read an article on the Patriots cornerbacks…complete with comments…and..you’re not a Pats fan…and you’re calling the Pats fans stupid and obsessed…

I’m sorry…can you tell me the caveman thing again please?

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Baltimore fans bought that Brian Billick was an offensive genius for 9 seasons…Your world frightens and confuses me!

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2. No one has yet learned that coverups end up supplanting the actual deeds by a landslide. It’s the lying about the actual act that spawns all of these aftershocks. Had Belichick and Goodall just come clean to begin with, and left out all the Nixonian/post-Watergate coverup crap, this thing would have ended a long time ago. (But then, we’d have missed out on all the Pats fans posts. TFF)

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You act as if Belichick woke up one day (on his first day as head coach) and decided to start taping signals. Wow… naive.

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Apparently, pats fans are not smart enough to figure out that if they don’t want to read about a certain topic, then they should not read the article.

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1998 & 99 Denver Brocos *

2001 New England Patriots **
2003 New England Patriots **
2004 New England Patriots **

* caught in salary cap scandal
** caught and admitted to cheating.

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I am saying that Moss made Brady much better and the Pats team much better. Surely any objective fan can see that.

I am saying that the Pats were dominant in 2007, prior to getting their butts kicked in the Super Bowl.

I am saying that cheating helped them win 3 Super Bowls when their team was good, but not great.

I am saying that going 18-1 is 2007 in no way proves their innocence prior to 2007.

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tkebean says:

All football books should look like this in the future…

1998 & 1999 SB Champs - Denver Broncos*

* - caught in salary cap cheating scandal twice, hit with highest fine in the history of the NFL, along with lost draft picks wins tainted.

1972 SB Champs Dolphins*

*- caught in a tampering scandal. NFL took away first round draft pick as punishment.

1986 SB Champs Chicago Bears*

*-George Halas cited for cheating going back to 1955 and possibly longer. No evidence exists that the Bears have ceased the practice.

* Other teams cited by Matt Walsh as also taping signals. (Walsh stated that he witnessed other teams involved in the same practice as he was. Neither the commissioner nor any member of the media wanted to know which teams those were however. Seeing as everyone is willing to believe his testimony regarding the Patriots, they must accept this allegation as truth as well.)

2006 SB Winners Indianapolis Colts*

* - along with the other teams that Jimmy Johnson cited as using the same practice as the Patriots (Cowboys?) and cited a coach for the Colts as the “best in the business” when it comes to taping signal calling.

*ALL other Super Bowl winners. Evidence surfaced in 1967 implicating numerous other teams for bugging, spying, filming etc. http://www.thesportgallery.com/sport-stories/1967aug-nflspy.html

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There should be a job openning at the Herald for you pretty soon.

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So what you are saying is, that without Moss, Brady is as good, or better as the time when the supposed “cheating” occurred?

Of course Moss helped him! All QBs that throw nearly as many TDs as Brady did with Moss had at least ONE superstar receiver!

Keep in mind that the Pats got nothing on tape that they couldn’t have put together with other tapes/sources that are completely legal. It just made the job easier. Signs get stolen, that is legal. Change your signals if you are afraid of them getting stolen, or start using wristbands.

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Confirmed spy sighting
———————–
“Halfway through practice, Patriots’ linebackers coach Pepper Johnson noticed something in a third-floor window of a house next to the field.

Club and league officials said a telescope was clearly visible in the window, according to a pool report, and that 15 minutes later, a person appeared at the window, and then vanished.”

Dirty to the core?
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From the mouth of Jimmy Johnson in response to a question about spying with video…God help us Dungy’s name is mentioned:

“Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you’re going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace….That’s what I’m saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimer’s scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that’s how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.”

Where is the outrage?

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DEAL WITH IT!

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Sounds plausible, and I think he might have been @ that Super Bowl.

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I too agree Goodell tried to cover up, but not for the reasons you state. The owners don’t want to lose their antitrust agreement–$$$$$$.

Something about this whole story stinks. Too many puzzle pieces missing.

Goodell tries to make it go away quickly by destroying the tapes and the notes, then gives a fine in an amount of money that couldn’t possibly be missed and takes away 1 round pick that is practically meaningless — for 7 years of cheating. He tried to downplay it, hoping it would be forgotten and not wanting the true extent of the cheating to come out. It didn’t work; he’s not a very good liar.

We have no idea what was on the material that Goodell destroyed. For all we know it DID include a pre-Super Bowl Rams walkthrough or even taping of the regular season Rams-vs-Pats game. Just because it hasn’t “surfaced,” doesn’t mean it doesn’t/didn’t exist.

Walsh’s lawyer wanted an indemnification agreement, and for what. For him to bring “nothing new” to the table? Get real. We’ll never know for sure what he had. Like one of the NFL coaches said, “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.”

The Herald retracts, yet no big deal is made by Kraft?

The arrogant Pats coach hems and haws but doesn’t really say anything and makes no strong statement?

No, this smells like a coverup to me. I bet the tape really did exist and was destroyed. And I bet Walsh did have it. This was all swept under the table.

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That one coach destroyed the integrity of his team and organization that–not the public or the media. Quit trying to project the blame elsewhere.

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The bottom line for some of you seems to be “Florio is (brilliant, objective, etc.) when he posts things I agree with, and a (dead horse beater, hater, etc) when he posts things I don’t agree with.”

From someone who really doesn’t care whether cheating occurred or not, I do have to say that it’s been very interesting watching the collective body of Patriots fans respond to these stories.

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May 20th, 2008 at 1:34 am
The Rams lost this game because they turned it over 3x and Martz refused to run the ball when Faulk was averaging 5 yds/carry(with 90 yards) in the 4th qtr.

70s Dolphins**(tampering), 79s Steelers****(mass steroids), 80s/90s 49ers**(cap tampering), 90s Broncos**(cap tampering), 00s Pats***.

If one gets it, they ALL get it!!!
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AGAIN, YET ANOTHER PATSIE FAN TWISTING FACTS TO TRY TO JUSTIFY THEIR TEAMS CHEATING! Let’s get the facts straight, once and for all:

1) 70s Dolphins were not guilty of any tampering. What you are referring to here is Joe Robbie’s hiring of Don Shula in 1969. The reason the Dolphins were hit with the loss of a 1st round pick (which went to Balimore Colts) was due to the fact that the Dolphins did not finish their negotiations with Shula until after the NFL-AFL merger. What you fail to recognize is the negotiations began well befor the merger, and just the contract wasn’t signed until after the merger. This is splitting hairs, since the NFL and AFL were two entirely separate leagues when Robbie hired away Shula. No tampering here, only appeasement for the Colts as part of the merger agreement.
2) 79 Steelers did nothing illeagal. Steroids were not illegal to use in the 70’s. They became illegal once it became obvious that they were harmful. This was evident after Lyle Alzedo (Raiders) died as a result of using steriods in the early 80’s.
3)80’s/90’s 49ers Salary Cap cheating. Here is another fine twisting of facts. Do you have any clue when the salary cap era started? 1994 Season, which was the last Super Bowl Season for the 49ers. They won a total of 5 from 1981-1994. They were actually charged with salary cheating in 2001, for alleged “undisclosed payments” to 3 players made in their 1997 contracts. So tell me - how do these have any impact on their 5 super bowl wins????
4)90’s Bronco’s Cap Tampering - Finally! You get one right! The Bronco’s were charged by the league in 2001 for cap violations pertaingin to payments made to Elway and T. Davis for the 1996 and 1998 years. They won their super bowls in 1997 and 1998. Hooray, you are not a complete moron!!!!
5) The Patriots are guilty as hell!! Ok, so 2 out of 5 makes you an idiot, not a moron. Congrats on making a respectable run at the end!

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DAVID PATTEN 8 YD PASS FROM TOM BRADY (ADAM VINATIERI KICK) 14:29
Drive Info: Time 0:49, Plays 5, Yds 40

ADAM VINATIERI 37 YD 13:42
Drive Info: Time 2:07, Plays 5, Yds 14

ADAM VINATIERI 48 YD 15:00
Drive Info: Time 1:30, Plays 9, Yds 53

For 58.5 minutes, the Patriots scored a FG on a 14 yard drive and a TD Drive of 40 yards. Brady was 11 of 19 for 92 yards before the last drive of the game.

Please stop with the Patriots stole the Rams signals.

If the Patriots did steal the signals, it proves that stealing signals doesnt help at all.

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Please answer these 2 questions;

1. Why did the media act as if they WANTED Matt Walsh to have had “the goods”?
2. Why has the media continued to write stories as if Walsh DID have the goods?

The only story that should have resulted from Walsh’s testimony was, “Walsh Confirms Pats did not use tapes during games”

Waiting for your answer.

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With Moss, Welker and Stallworth, the Pats team of 2007 should have been dominant. And they were - right up until they choked in the Super Bowl. But cheating helped them to win PRIOR to 2007, when they didn’t have a dominant offense. We are talking about two different teams. The pre-Moss Pats were never a dominant team. They eked out wins, which makes their cheating seem all the more significant, because we all know that they were not capable of dominating other teams.

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2001 SB Champs - New England Patriots *

* - caught in cheating scandal, win tainted.

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from Peter King
QUOTE
For years teams have had backup quarterbacks trying to decipher opposing signals, and teams have sent scouts to sit in press boxes and watch defensive coaches signal in to the players, trying to steal the defensive call. One veteran player told me this weekend he thought there were five teams who stole signals just as well as the Patriots did, without using videotape.
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Scouts Inc on signal stealing:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3394809

and for all you asterisk lovers don’t forget to give the Giants and Bill Parcells their own asterisks too:

QUOTE
In Friday’s Washington Post, NFL reporter Mark Maske quotes former Giants quarterback Phil Simms contending that stolen signals are no guarantee of victory: “‘I’ve been in games where we knew every signal, every call by the other team, and we still lost,’ Simms said by telephone yesterday. ‘We [the Giants] had the San Diego Chargers’ signals in 1980. We knew every signal. We knew every play. We were calling out what they were going to do: ‘Here comes this. Here comes that.’ They still scored 44 points.’” After more Simms quotes, the article moved to other matters. Who was on the New York Giants’ coaching staff in 1980? Bill Belichick and Ernie Adams.
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