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One issue that has been overlooked by many/most/all of the media, and of which a reader has reminded us recently, is the question of whether the Patriots used their videotaping system on the St. Louis Rams when the two teams met in the 2001 regular season, only a couple of months before Super Bowl XXXVI.
Even though we now know that the Pats didn’t videotape the Rams’ walk-through prior to the game, it doesn’t mean that there was no cheating on the biggest stage in sports.
It’s unclear whether the question has been asked, but it sure doesn’t appear to us that the question has been answered. And it’s a simple question — did the videotaping of defensive coaching signals include the November 18 prime-time game between the two teams, which the Rams won, 24-17?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:15 am
In the words of Mike Martz “We lost because we had 3 turnovers”.
Sounds plausible, and I think he might have been @ that Super Bowl.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 10:16 am
To all those who think we should continue talking about spygate…GET OVER IT! Rant all you want, the Pats are still going to beat you and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it…is there now?
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Keep yakking all you want, Belichik is staying until 2013.
DEAL WITH IT!
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Rating: 3.4 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 10:23 am
CHANGE TH DAMN SIGNALS!IS THAT SO HARD FOR ALL THE JEALOUS HATERS TO FIGURE OUT!TALK ABOUT BEATING A DEAD HORSE.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Some people live in a fantasy world, and I’m not talking about fantasy football either!
Can we agree on some of the facts in this case!
1. Walsh kept the tape until after the game. If you believe him at all, he corraborates BB’s asertion that the tapes were never used “during the game!”
2. The Boston Herald who broke the “Spygate II,” the walkthrough! Admitted they were wrong! Apologized to the Patriots on a full page ad! Moreover John Tomase who wrote the story issues a full explanation of why he made the worst mistake of his career.
3. The BB Armand Kartain interview was 17 mins long and should be viewed in it’s entirety! BB clearly states that Walsh was in plain view. No intent to hide. The tapes show Walsh standing in the endzone in full Patriots gear!(so much for Walshes explanation, hard to be discreet in plain view, wearing Pats gear)
4. The Commissioner’s statement, finds no other punishable rule breaking. The tapes that Walsh had showed the SD Cheerleaders on the tape. All the while on ESPN, Palintonio seriously pretending to be Dan Rather! Over his shoulder during this dire crises is a tape of the Cheerleaders doing thier dance routines?
5. Last but not least, Sen. Specter! In a dis-jointed press conference, calls for an independant investigation! Mostly critisizing Goodell’s handling of the matter! Maybe your investigating the wrong guy there Senator? You clearly have a problem with Goodell and the conflict between Comcast and the NFLN for revenue. Why would Specter give up those campaign dollars? Why would Comcast give back the 5$ a month they get from me for the NFLN? It’s fairly clear to me where Sen. Specter’s true constituancy is the cable company’s that’s funding his campaigns.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Goodell said they didnt at his press confrence you tard Florio. He asked Walsh and he said they didnt. Maybe if you did your damn job and actually watched the press conference you would know that.
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Rating: 2.7 / 5 with 7 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 11:07 am
My point about the 2007 Pats is that you can’t say “well they won 18 games this year” so this proves that cheating didn’t help them in the past. That’s not a logical conclusion. The team that won 18 games this year was a much different team.
And yes, Brady’s huge numbers are directly attributable to Moss. Sure he was a very good QB prior to that, but take away Moss and he is a 25 to 30 TD guy, not a 50 TD guy.
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Rating: 3.15 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 11:21 am
To sum up the last eight months.
Bla bla bla cheater…blablablabbla***.BLA BLA BLA 06!BLABLABLA. Yeah but…Blablablabla….Hate bla bla…Walsh bla bla….Your team blablabbla…My team bla bla. Charly Browns teacher Bla bla bla!
sinserly,Bla Bla.
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Rating: 3.2 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 11:29 am
More video
———-
“Tuesday night the Jets admitted that they did videotape the game and their employee was confronted, but said they had permission from the Patriots to film from that location.”
Confirmed spy sighting
———————–
“Halfway through practice, Patriots’ linebackers coach Pepper Johnson noticed something in a third-floor window of a house next to the field.
Club and league officials said a telescope was clearly visible in the window, according to a pool report, and that 15 minutes later, a person appeared at the window, and then vanished.”
Dirty to the core?
——————
From the mouth of Jimmy Johnson in response to a question about spying with video…God help us Dungy’s name is mentioned:
“Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you’re going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace….That’s what I’m saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimer’s scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that’s how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.”
Where is the outrage?
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Rating: 4 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 11:30 am
All pro.
So what you are saying is, that without Moss, Brady is as good, or better as the time when the supposed “cheating” occurred?
Of course Moss helped him! All QBs that throw nearly as many TDs as Brady did with Moss had at least ONE superstar receiver!
Keep in mind that the Pats got nothing on tape that they couldn’t have put together with other tapes/sources that are completely legal. It just made the job easier. Signs get stolen, that is legal. Change your signals if you are afraid of them getting stolen, or start using wristbands.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 11:31 am
“No, this smells like a coverup to me. I bet the tape really did exist and was destroyed. And I bet Walsh did have it. This was all swept under the table.”
There should be a job openning at the Herald for you pretty soon.
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May 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
You forgot a few and I know you want to be fair and balanced about this so let me help:
tkebean says:
All football books should look like this in the future…
1998 & 1999 SB Champs - Denver Broncos*
* - caught in salary cap cheating scandal twice, hit with highest fine in the history of the NFL, along with lost draft picks wins tainted.
1972 SB Champs Dolphins*
*- caught in a tampering scandal. NFL took away first round draft pick as punishment.
1986 SB Champs Chicago Bears*
*-George Halas cited for cheating going back to 1955 and possibly longer. No evidence exists that the Bears have ceased the practice.
* Other teams cited by Matt Walsh as also taping signals. (Walsh stated that he witnessed other teams involved in the same practice as he was. Neither the commissioner nor any member of the media wanted to know which teams those were however. Seeing as everyone is willing to believe his testimony regarding the Patriots, they must accept this allegation as truth as well.)
2006 SB Winners Indianapolis Colts*
* - along with the other teams that Jimmy Johnson cited as using the same practice as the Patriots (Cowboys?) and cited a coach for the Colts as the “best in the business” when it comes to taping signal calling.
*ALL other Super Bowl winners. Evidence surfaced in 1967 implicating numerous other teams for bugging, spying, filming etc. http://www.thesportgallery.com/sport-stories/1967aug-nflspy.html
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Rating: 2.35 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Go Pasterisks!
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Rating: 3.85 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
stanjam
I am saying that Moss made Brady much better and the Pats team much better. Surely any objective fan can see that.
I am saying that the Pats were dominant in 2007, prior to getting their butts kicked in the Super Bowl.
I am saying that cheating helped them win 3 Super Bowls when their team was good, but not great.
I am saying that going 18-1 is 2007 in no way proves their innocence prior to 2007.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I’ll give the Broncos as also deserving an asterisk, but the colts and bears are speculation. Let’s give them out based on fact.
1998 & 99 Denver Brocos *
2001 New England Patriots **
2003 New England Patriots **
2004 New England Patriots **
* caught in salary cap scandal
** caught and admitted to cheating.
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Rating: 3.4 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
All this spygate talk actually makes me laugh. Eventually opposing team fans will run out of excuses for why the Patriots are so good and maybe eventually, they’ll have to accept the facts. They’ve drafted very successfully, got lucky in the 6th round and the rest is history. For all those who say that the 3 super bowl wins are tarnished, fine… we’ll replace those trophies with three more just like them.
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Rating: 2.35 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Dude, pls … give a break … Are u that retarded or just trying to stirr up some more crap ….
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Keep up the good work Florio. Some of us non-pats lovers think you are doing a great job.
Apparently, pats fans are not smart enough to figure out that if they don’t want to read about a certain topic, then they should not read the article.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Wow - take your shots now… it should be fun when the regular season begins and New England wrecks all your teams. You see everyone looks at either one way or another. On one side, you have New England against the world (which as history shows, usually works in New England’s favor) and on the other side, you have fans of every other franchise in the league acting as if they are the “impartial voice of the NFL”. It’s a joke. A witch hunt, nothing more - anyone with half a brain can see that. They were assessed a penalty, and now it’s time to move on. People wouldn’t be happy if they hung Belichick for cheating. Jesus Christ, Marvin Harrison is being investigated for trying to shoot someone - there are people in the league now who have been investigated for murder, and all you people care about is whether or not Belichick had cameras on the sidelines. These signals aren’t encrypted… they are clearly visible to everyone in the stadium, does it really matter if I hire a bunch of coaches to watch the signals or if I tape them? apparently yes…. but the result is the same. Signals are an archaic remnant of an old era, should’ve been done away with a long time ago.
You act as if Belichick woke up one day (on his first day as head coach) and decided to start taping signals. Wow… naive.
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Rating: 2.35 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
1. Pats fans are a hoot. I just read the Hearld article about the new CBs, written by Karen Guregian, and EVERY SINGLE COMMENT — 23 to date — was about Tomase. NOTHING about the CBs whatsoever. Pats fans — so stupid and obsessed even a caveman is smarter.
2. No one has yet learned that coverups end up supplanting the actual deeds by a landslide. It’s the lying about the actual act that spawns all of these aftershocks. Had Belichick and Goodall just come clean to begin with, and left out all the Nixonian/post-Watergate coverup crap, this thing would have ended a long time ago. (But then, we’d have missed out on all the Pats fans posts. TFF)
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Rating: 4 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
The horse ain’t dead. It’s just resting after repeatedly trampling Belicheat and the Cheatriots. GIDDIE-UP HORSIE!!
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
“Pats fans — so stupid and obsessed even a caveman is smarter.”
- skaybaltimore 5/20/2008
Baltimore fans bought that Brian Billick was an offensive genius for 9 seasons…Your world frightens and confuses me!
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Mike, normally I enjoy your website tremendously. Lately though, it seems almost as if your becoming Spectre’s or ESPN’s mouthpiece just to keep this going. Do you REALLY think that the Rams coaching staff was SO inept as to not change their signals in the biggest game of the year while playing a foe from a few months earlier? I already have stopped reading the Herald and ESPN (Extra Special Pinheads Network) due to this MADE up story by a FIRED EX-employee who has already been proven to be a liar and a thief. Stop beating the dead horse for hits on your site, otherwise I’d have to stop visiting here as well, which I would hate to do.
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Rating: 2 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
“skaybaltimore says:
1. Pats fans are a hoot. I just read the Hearld article about the new CBs, written by Karen Guregian, and EVERY SINGLE COMMENT — 23 to date — was about Tomase. NOTHING about the CBs whatsoever.”
wait…dammit…
I’m not sure how I missed this…you just read an article on the Patriots cornerbacks…complete with comments…and..you’re not a Pats fan…and you’re calling the Pats fans stupid and obsessed…
I’m sorry…can you tell me the caveman thing again please?
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Man, these threads should be put in a time capsule as an example of how far some humans will go to compromise their ideals to protect a professional sports team that got caught red-handed cheating. It’s really quite amazing. I wonder if the Black Sox had as many apologists telling themselves (and anybody else willing to listen……which is almost nobody in this case) all manner of feeble justifications, falsities, excuses, mis-information, fabrications, and rulebook spin just to make themselves feel better about the FACT that thier team cheated.
Hey Pats fans, you deserve this and your team deserves this. Your team deserves it because they cheated. You deserve it because you’ve been the most annoying collection of braggarts professional football fandom has ever seen. Your team did this to themselves. This is Karma coming back around for you buys. You earned it. Now take your medicine and shut your mouths.
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Rating: 4.2 / 5 with 5 rating(s)