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One issue that has been overlooked by many/most/all of the media, and of which a reader has reminded us recently, is the question of whether the Patriots used their videotaping system on the St. Louis Rams when the two teams met in the 2001 regular season, only a couple of months before Super Bowl XXXVI.
Even though we now know that the Pats didn’t videotape the Rams’ walk-through prior to the game, it doesn’t mean that there was no cheating on the biggest stage in sports.
It’s unclear whether the question has been asked, but it sure doesn’t appear to us that the question has been answered. And it’s a simple question — did the videotaping of defensive coaching signals include the November 18 prime-time game between the two teams, which the Rams won, 24-17?
May 20th, 2008 at 7:51 am
bpenlandjr says: “I am soooooooooooooooooooo tired of idiotic Pats fans who try to twist logic like this. What do you NOT GET ABOUT THIS?? Cheating is cheating. The NFL clarified what was considered cheating in 2006. THIS MEANS IT WAS CHEATING IN 2001 TOO!!! The “clarification” was exactly as follows: “just in case you did not think we were serious, taping during a game for use in ANY GAME is illegal. Please stop or we will be forced to disipline you.” The Pats and BB blatantly ignored this memo…”
Fantastic logic there bpenlandjr… so Belichick is able to defy physics by violating a 2006 memo in 2001? He is an amazingly talented coach.
Don’t argue with me bpenlandjr - argue with the NFL if you think the 2001 rule was so clear it didn’t need clarification.
The NFL openly admits it did - and they clarified it - in 2006. You want to apply the 2006 wording to what the Patriots were doing in 2001.
You’d better hope that Goodell doesn’t invent a new rule next year, declare your team was violating it last year, and take away a draft pick to “send a message”.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Ditto to just about every comment on this one…time to move on PFT.
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May 20th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Mike,
I think it’s time for you to tap into your creative mind and find a new topic. Spygate is DEAD, that’s a fact. So give it up brother!ot
Please show us how informed you are and answer these 2 questions;
1. Why did the media clearly act as if they wanted Matt Walsh to “have had the goods”?
2. Despite the fact Matt Walsh did NOT have the goods, why has the media (particularyl, Mike Florio) acted as if he DID have something?
Because when you look at all the facts, Walsh gave us nothing new which SHOULD have resulted in stories like “Walsh information supports Belichik’s statements”
We’re waiting…
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Rating: 2.35 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Hello to the NE fans who are so over this and yet have read through these 3 pages of comments. Life is eternal pain.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:29 am
So the Patriots, whom I believe were 5-5 at the time, videotaped the Rams because they thought there was a chance they’d meet up in the Super Bowl? Has everybody started eating retard sandwiches? Not even Belichick expected to make the playoffs that year. He’s a great coach….he’s not psychic.
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Rating: 2 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Boy, even the comment posts are the same arguments over and over and over. BLA BB BLA BLA BLAB BLABBA BLAB!
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:38 am
You homer Pats fans kill me. You guys/girls want 8 years of cheating, which contributed to 3 Super Bowl wins, to just get swept under the rug. I have news for you. This story isn’t over, and in reality that is probably Goodell’s fault. If Goodell had come forward with all that he knew back in September and issued an appropriate punishment (including a suspension for Belichick) than this would probably be over. But the Pats got a slap on the wrist for the worst cheating scandal in NFL history. Trust me, the story ain’t over yet.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Do we care if the Pats taped the Rams game? Its moot. Assume they taped every game. Insignificant.
from Peter King
QUOTE
For years teams have had backup quarterbacks trying to decipher opposing signals, and teams have sent scouts to sit in press boxes and watch defensive coaches signal in to the players, trying to steal the defensive call. One veteran player told me this weekend he thought there were five teams who stole signals just as well as the Patriots did, without using videotape.
END QUOTE
Scouts Inc on signal stealing:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3394809
and for all you asterisk lovers don’t forget to give the Giants and Bill Parcells their own asterisks too:
QUOTE
In Friday’s Washington Post, NFL reporter Mark Maske quotes former Giants quarterback Phil Simms contending that stolen signals are no guarantee of victory: “‘I’ve been in games where we knew every signal, every call by the other team, and we still lost,’ Simms said by telephone yesterday. ‘We [the Giants] had the San Diego Chargers’ signals in 1980. We knew every signal. We knew every play. We were calling out what they were going to do: ‘Here comes this. Here comes that.’ They still scored 44 points.’” After more Simms quotes, the article moved to other matters. Who was on the New York Giants’ coaching staff in 1980? Bill Belichick and Ernie Adams.
END QUOTE
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Rating: 2 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:47 am
All football books should look like this in the future…
2001 SB Champs - New England Patriots *
* - caught in cheating scandal, win tainted.
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Rating: 3.85 / 5 with 7 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:48 am
For those who point to the Pats 18-1 record in 2007 as proof of their innocence, you need to be reminded of one key point. Prior to 2007, the Pats did not have Randy Moss. You can’t compare the 2004 Super Bowl team to the 2007 version with Moss. Moss changes everything. Just ask Dante Culpepper, who seemed to be a lock for the Hall of Fame when he and Moss were paired up early in their careers.
With Moss, Welker and Stallworth, the Pats team of 2007 should have been dominant. And they were - right up until they choked in the Super Bowl. But cheating helped them to win PRIOR to 2007, when they didn’t have a dominant offense. We are talking about two different teams. The pre-Moss Pats were never a dominant team. They eked out wins, which makes their cheating seem all the more significant, because we all know that they were not capable of dominating other teams.
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May 20th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Mike Florio,
Please answer these 2 questions;
1. Why did the media act as if they WANTED Matt Walsh to have had “the goods”?
2. Why has the media continued to write stories as if Walsh DID have the goods?
The only story that should have resulted from Walsh’s testimony was, “Walsh Confirms Pats did not use tapes during games”
Waiting for your answer.
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May 20th, 2008 at 8:56 am
This is the offensive explosion from the Patriots in SB 36:
DAVID PATTEN 8 YD PASS FROM TOM BRADY (ADAM VINATIERI KICK) 14:29
Drive Info: Time 0:49, Plays 5, Yds 40
ADAM VINATIERI 37 YD 13:42
Drive Info: Time 2:07, Plays 5, Yds 14
ADAM VINATIERI 48 YD 15:00
Drive Info: Time 1:30, Plays 9, Yds 53
For 58.5 minutes, the Patriots scored a FG on a 14 yard drive and a TD Drive of 40 yards. Brady was 11 of 19 for 92 yards before the last drive of the game.
Please stop with the Patriots stole the Rams signals.
If the Patriots did steal the signals, it proves that stealing signals doesnt help at all.
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:02 am
yankeemofo says:
May 20th, 2008 at 1:34 am
The Rams lost this game because they turned it over 3x and Martz refused to run the ball when Faulk was averaging 5 yds/carry(with 90 yards) in the 4th qtr.
70s Dolphins**(tampering), 79s Steelers****(mass steroids), 80s/90s 49ers**(cap tampering), 90s Broncos**(cap tampering), 00s Pats***.
If one gets it, they ALL get it!!!
———————————————————–
AGAIN, YET ANOTHER PATSIE FAN TWISTING FACTS TO TRY TO JUSTIFY THEIR TEAMS CHEATING! Let’s get the facts straight, once and for all:
1) 70s Dolphins were not guilty of any tampering. What you are referring to here is Joe Robbie’s hiring of Don Shula in 1969. The reason the Dolphins were hit with the loss of a 1st round pick (which went to Balimore Colts) was due to the fact that the Dolphins did not finish their negotiations with Shula until after the NFL-AFL merger. What you fail to recognize is the negotiations began well befor the merger, and just the contract wasn’t signed until after the merger. This is splitting hairs, since the NFL and AFL were two entirely separate leagues when Robbie hired away Shula. No tampering here, only appeasement for the Colts as part of the merger agreement.
2) 79 Steelers did nothing illeagal. Steroids were not illegal to use in the 70’s. They became illegal once it became obvious that they were harmful. This was evident after Lyle Alzedo (Raiders) died as a result of using steriods in the early 80’s.
3)80’s/90’s 49ers Salary Cap cheating. Here is another fine twisting of facts. Do you have any clue when the salary cap era started? 1994 Season, which was the last Super Bowl Season for the 49ers. They won a total of 5 from 1981-1994. They were actually charged with salary cheating in 2001, for alleged “undisclosed payments” to 3 players made in their 1997 contracts. So tell me - how do these have any impact on their 5 super bowl wins????
4)90’s Bronco’s Cap Tampering - Finally! You get one right! The Bronco’s were charged by the league in 2001 for cap violations pertaingin to payments made to Elway and T. Davis for the 1996 and 1998 years. They won their super bowls in 1997 and 1998. Hooray, you are not a complete moron!!!!
5) The Patriots are guilty as hell!! Ok, so 2 out of 5 makes you an idiot, not a moron. Congrats on making a respectable run at the end!
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Rating: 4.2 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 9:10 am
boy, it’s such a hoot to see all these cheater fans pour on to the message boards every time you post a story about the most embarrassing episode to EVER happen to the nfl, SPYGATE. cry, whine, blame others, excuse cheating with other bad behavior, even tell all of us how “tired” you are of the story. whatever it takes to make this “biggest black-eye” the nfl has ever incurred, go away. i don’t blame all the cheater fans, i’d be embarrassed every time this story comes up too. only difference is, i’d hide my head in shame. these stupid idiots keep coming around to try to defend their cheating team with whatever moronic defenses they can dream up. the patriot organization will ALWAYS be linked to cheating, in the biggest way in competition, EVER. that’s a fact. tim donaghy would even be proud of the big bellicheaters.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 9:11 am
here’s an aspect of the whole spygate episode that might
be a working theory.
maybe when the pats turned over the tapes to the league
office,mr. goodell confered with several owners and
decided that the best way to deal with the”taping”
problem was to destroy everything.the reason being,
everyone was knee deep in the muck.everyone was cheating
in some way,shape or form.
i know cheatig is cheating,period.this goes beyond that,
i think what the league was worried about was that the
gambling francise,that the league beneignly promotes,
was in danger of loss of interest.
let’s face it one of the driving forces of football
is the ability to always find “action”
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:21 am
It’s so funny that some of the same people singing Florio’s praises last week when he was summarizing facts of Spygate are now up in arms over his latest couple of posts about the topic.
The bottom line for some of you seems to be “Florio is (brilliant, objective, etc.) when he posts things I agree with, and a (dead horse beater, hater, etc) when he posts things I don’t agree with.”
From someone who really doesn’t care whether cheating occurred or not, I do have to say that it’s been very interesting watching the collective body of Patriots fans respond to these stories.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 9:22 am
I’m sure they did tape the Rams, but for the love of God, move on!
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Here’s the real problem. Belichek knew he was cheating and did it anyway. Once someone has been exposed as a cheat or a liar or a thief or anything like that which shows an undeniable lack of character and blatant DISRESPECT for the game, then you can NEVER trust that person again. You can NEVER know whether that person has stopped cheating or whether he has merely gotten more sophisticated in his technique, and that includes during an 18-1 season and a SB loss.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 9:30 am
I hope we talk about Shady brady and Bill Belicheat for the next 20 years. Maybe reebok can place asterisks next to all numbers on Patriots jerseys this season. That would be awesome. Nothing would make me happier than opening up a Tom Brady Jersey on Christmas morning that has a giant * on it.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 9:45 am
To TheBigOldDog, who said, “If we are going to try to destroy one team and one coach …”
That one coach destroyed the integrity of his team and organization that–not the public or the media. Quit trying to project the blame elsewhere.
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Wow Florio, slow news day. Everyday the random accusations get progressivly worse. Tomorrow it may be, was Belichick the lone gunman on the grassy noll. I mean come on, he did tape a few games signals and analyized them later… so how far of a stretch is murder?
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Osama bin Laden released a new video: he’s tired of hearing about 9/11, so maybe the media should stop talking about that too.
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May 20th, 2008 at 9:55 am
@All Pro - While, I agree with you the 2007 Patriots were offensivly more potent. They did something no other team has done in the history of the NFL. One Randy Moss isn’t going to make THAT much of a difference unless you have a great QB who can get him the ball. Stallworth was terrible this year, in fact, I seriously think Cleveland overpaid for him… not worth it. Welker is great between the 5-10 yard range… doesn’t have break-away speed like Randy. Besides, you seem to forget out of all the tapes Matt Walsh submitted to the league, the Patriots were 3-3. Secondly, the three Super Bowl wins were won with defense. They never had this kind of offensive domination until this year.
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Wow! We’ve got some interesting new revisionist history from idiot Pats fans here. So now you’ve decided it was legal prior to 2006? Are you all really that stupid or is this just your new way of deluding yourselves into thinking your precious coach isn’t a scumbag? The NFL rules clearly stated that it was illegal all along. The memo sent out in 2006 wasn’t a clarification, it was a reminder & a warning. Do you idiots actually believe Belichick’s weak excuses about “misinterpreting” the rules as well? Give it up. Just accept the fact that your coach is a dirty cheater & move on.
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Rating: 4 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 20th, 2008 at 10:06 am
To moonbeam,
I too agree Goodell tried to cover up, but not for the reasons you state. The owners don’t want to lose their antitrust agreement–$$$$$$.
Something about this whole story stinks. Too many puzzle pieces missing.
Goodell tries to make it go away quickly by destroying the tapes and the notes, then gives a fine in an amount of money that couldn’t possibly be missed and takes away 1 round pick that is practically meaningless — for 7 years of cheating. He tried to downplay it, hoping it would be forgotten and not wanting the true extent of the cheating to come out. It didn’t work; he’s not a very good liar.
We have no idea what was on the material that Goodell destroyed. For all we know it DID include a pre-Super Bowl Rams walkthrough or even taping of the regular season Rams-vs-Pats game. Just because it hasn’t “surfaced,” doesn’t mean it doesn’t/didn’t exist.
Walsh’s lawyer wanted an indemnification agreement, and for what. For him to bring “nothing new” to the table? Get real. We’ll never know for sure what he had. Like one of the NFL coaches said, “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.”
The Herald retracts, yet no big deal is made by Kraft?
The arrogant Pats coach hems and haws but doesn’t really say anything and makes no strong statement?
No, this smells like a coverup to me. I bet the tape really did exist and was destroyed. And I bet Walsh did have it. This was all swept under the table.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)