Comments on: DID MCSHAY MISLEAD WOODSON?

Comments on: DID MCSHAY MISLEAD WOODSON? http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:54:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: pdyerosu http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-29516 pdyerosu Wed, 14 May 2008 18:51:01 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-29516 This is ridiculous. Any player expecting to find out where they will go based on a Mock Draft should go back to school and get more of an education. Also, the actual scouts and player development departments in NFL departments miss on players all of the time, as evidenced by PFT looking back at the 2005 draft and pointing out that nearly half the first round picks were busts. I am sure that your source has missed on plenty of picks his team has made, so to throw McShay under the bus was uncalled for. This is ridiculous. Any player expecting to find out where they will go based on a Mock Draft should go back to school and get more of an education. Also, the actual scouts and player development departments in NFL departments miss on players all of the time, as evidenced by PFT looking back at the 2005 draft and pointing out that nearly half the first round picks were busts. I am sure that your source has missed on plenty of picks his team has made, so to throw McShay under the bus was uncalled for.

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]]> By: trikee http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-29133 trikee Wed, 14 May 2008 05:48:10 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-29133 I don't think there's anything wrong with Florio posing a question. After all, it was a question and not a statement. It's a fair critique. Both McShay and Kiper come off as know-it-alls and even argue (I'm sure this is staged by ESPN in a further attempt to sensationalize everything) over who is more right. This is a great post by Florio because it calls out McShay for being not nearly as great as he would have you believe. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Florio posing a question. After all, it was a question and not a statement. It’s a fair critique. Both McShay and Kiper come off as know-it-alls and even argue (I’m sure this is staged by ESPN in a further attempt to sensationalize everything) over who is more right.

This is a great post by Florio because it calls out McShay for being not nearly as great as he would have you believe.

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]]> By: subzero2401 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-29023 subzero2401 Wed, 14 May 2008 01:43:25 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-29023 Are we really having this conversation? Florio, you know you're my boy, but you're starting to get a little ridiculous with your seemingly anti-ESPN posts. How can McShay possibly be held responsible for where Woodson did or didn't get drafted? And why are we ripping McShay for being wrong in a mock...that's right, mock draft? if any of the "experts" could accurately predict every pick correctly, there probably wouldn't be any need to actually hold a draft...McShay and Kiper could just tell all the rookies where they were going. Come on Florio, I know it's a slow time of year, but resist the urge to post nonsense. You're better than that. Are we really having this conversation? Florio, you know you’re my boy, but you’re starting to get a little ridiculous with your seemingly anti-ESPN posts. How can McShay possibly be held responsible for where Woodson did or didn’t get drafted? And why are we ripping McShay for being wrong in a mock…that’s right, mock draft? if any of the “experts” could accurately predict every pick correctly, there probably wouldn’t be any need to actually hold a draft…McShay and Kiper could just tell all the rookies where they were going. Come on Florio, I know it’s a slow time of year, but resist the urge to post nonsense. You’re better than that.

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]]> By: Sean-a-delphia http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28709 Sean-a-delphia Tue, 13 May 2008 18:20:47 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28709 one more thing, this is the equivalent of me going out and buying Madden08 and trading 85 to the eagles, and then calling up andy reid in real life and yelling at him for it not actully being reality.. seriously it is THAT stupid IMO. one more thing, this is the equivalent of me going out and buying Madden08 and trading 85 to the eagles, and then calling up andy reid in real life and yelling at him for it not actully being reality.. seriously it is THAT stupid IMO.

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]]> By: Sean-a-delphia http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28696 Sean-a-delphia Tue, 13 May 2008 18:10:16 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28696 this boggled my mind so much it made me sign up just to comment. are you freaking kidding me pft? this guy mcshay's job is to put together a "MOCK" draft to give viewers and fans an idea of what’s what as far as talent and possible draft position. since when are they to be held accountable as far as being right or wrong? wouldn’t they be working for an NFL franchise if that were the case. this makes me sick that it would even be out here. Ripping mcshay for doing his job? He is on air for fans and viewers to give his opinion and to help out people that work and don’t have time to study every player out there and want to follow the draft. This stuff is getting REDICULE!!! this boggled my mind so much it made me sign up just to comment. are you freaking kidding me pft? this guy mcshay’s job is to put together a “MOCK” draft to give viewers and fans an idea of what’s what as far as talent and possible draft position. since when are they to be held accountable as far as being right or wrong? wouldn’t they be working for an NFL franchise if that were the case. this makes me sick that it would even be out here. Ripping mcshay for doing his job? He is on air for fans and viewers to give his opinion and to help out people that work and don’t have time to study every player out there and want to follow the draft. This stuff is getting REDICULE!!!

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]]> By: cantgetenough http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28681 cantgetenough Tue, 13 May 2008 17:54:12 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28681 PSMITH, a Cheerleader, says: "If Woodson made his decision based strictly on internet mock drafts, he is an idiot. What was his Wonderlic score?" Woodson scored a 14. Know what the average is for QBs? 24. You know which position has the highest average Wonderlic? Offensive tackle at 26. PSMITH, a Cheerleader, says:

“If Woodson made his decision based strictly on internet mock drafts, he is an idiot. What was his Wonderlic score?”

Woodson scored a 14. Know what the average is for QBs? 24. You know which position has the highest average Wonderlic? Offensive tackle at 26.

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]]> By: Cpt.Chaos47 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28653 Cpt.Chaos47 Tue, 13 May 2008 17:38:36 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28653 Whoever this source is has an awfully high opinion of scout, meaning most likely he himself is one. While I think McShay is a moron too its not like scouts do a great job of perdicting how college talent will translate to the NFL level. If they were Tom Brady would have been picked earlier than the 6th round, not to mention the numerous busts that have been taken in the 1st round, but this source is right McShay has nothing to lose with his Mock Drafts, but now if Andre Woodson is the next Tom Brady he'll look like just as big of a moron, but I guess thats why he's an unnamed source. Whoever this source is has an awfully high opinion of scout, meaning most likely he himself is one. While I think McShay is a moron too its not like scouts do a great job of perdicting how college talent will translate to the NFL level. If they were Tom Brady would have been picked earlier than the 6th round, not to mention the numerous busts that have been taken in the 1st round, but this source is right McShay has nothing to lose with his Mock Drafts, but now if Andre Woodson is the next Tom Brady he’ll look like just as big of a moron, but I guess thats why he’s an unnamed source.

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]]> By: DTMWTMP http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28636 DTMWTMP Tue, 13 May 2008 17:29:20 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28636 Those experts on the NFLN's show during the draft were good. Really good. You'd think ESPN could hire some experts too. Those experts on the NFLN’s show during the draft were good. Really good. You’d think ESPN could hire some experts too.

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]]> By: bluedoctor http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28552 bluedoctor Tue, 13 May 2008 16:41:51 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28552 I'm not McShay's biggest fan but I am in agreement with most here that McShay is not to blame for "misleading" Woodson. McShay, Green and others are paid to voice their opinions on the air and just like the rest of us can be wrong a lot. They are paid a lot b/c they are in high profile jobs. If this "league source" thinks he can do better than he should apply for the freaking job and show us what he's got. As Florio has often pointed out when posting his mock drafts, a few crazy picks/trades in the middle of round one can have a tremendous impact on the rest of the draft and render every mock draft worthless. So how in the heck can McShay, Green or any of these others deserve blame for Woodson's naivete? Regarding ESPN, they were founded by sports reporters then later operated under the umbrella of ABC until the mid-1990's when ABC was acquired by Disney. Since then, Disney has decided that the "Entertainment and Sports News" channel should become just that--a sports news and sports entertainment channel with an emphasis on the entertainment part. The senior leadership is under the "vision" of a company built on entertainment fluff. It is not altogether shocking that ESPN has transformed itself into sports reporting fluff. What is surprising to me is how much this fluff has infiltrated into day to day programming. I commented in another thread about a horrible segment involving Garnett and Bill Russell which looked more like Dr. Phil than Sportscenter. I’m not McShay’s biggest fan but I am in agreement with most here that McShay is not to blame for “misleading” Woodson. McShay, Green and others are paid to voice their opinions on the air and just like the rest of us can be wrong a lot. They are paid a lot b/c they are in high profile jobs. If this “league source” thinks he can do better than he should apply for the freaking job and show us what he’s got.

As Florio has often pointed out when posting his mock drafts, a few crazy picks/trades in the middle of round one can have a tremendous impact on the rest of the draft and render every mock draft worthless. So how in the heck can McShay, Green or any of these others deserve blame for Woodson’s naivete?

Regarding ESPN, they were founded by sports reporters then later operated under the umbrella of ABC until the mid-1990’s when ABC was acquired by Disney. Since then, Disney has decided that the “Entertainment and Sports News” channel should become just that–a sports news and sports entertainment channel with an emphasis on the entertainment part. The senior leadership is under the “vision” of a company built on entertainment fluff. It is not altogether shocking that ESPN has transformed itself into sports reporting fluff. What is surprising to me is how much this fluff has infiltrated into day to day programming. I commented in another thread about a horrible segment involving Garnett and Bill Russell which looked more like Dr. Phil than Sportscenter.

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]]> By: ufourya http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28515 ufourya Tue, 13 May 2008 16:13:29 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28515 It seems some misinformation has found its way into the comments. Woodson entered the draft as a senior to begin with, not early. He was projected to go anywhere from the 2nd to early 5th rounds. If his release is so slow, his accuracy so poor and he stares down receivers, why are many of his statistics better than Matt Ryan’s? In addition he played in a pro-style offense at Kentucky, so those stats, compared to some other QBs, are not skewed by having the benefit of throwing in a run and shoot. Ernie Accorsi, Jerry Reese’s predecessor and mentor as GM for the Giants, was a pretty good assessor of talent. In the recent book about him, he specifically mentions a slow delivery as a serious QB defect. I’m pretty sure his tutoring of Reese included this concept. If that is the case, why would Reese even consider Woodson? I’m willing to bet that Woodson leapfrogs Lorenzen and the other QB to be the back-up by next year. I can see why the kid would be disappointed by slipping to the 6th, but it’s stooopid to blame anything other than circumstance for that slide. We all, of course, are aware of the spectacular players who find their way to the top after all the ‘experts’ ignore or ridicule them. Just sayin’. It seems some misinformation has found its way into the comments. Woodson entered the draft as a senior to begin with, not early.

He was projected to go anywhere from the 2nd to early 5th rounds.

If his release is so slow, his accuracy so poor and he stares down receivers, why are many of his statistics better than Matt Ryan’s? In addition he played in a pro-style offense at Kentucky, so those stats, compared to some other QBs, are not skewed by having the benefit of throwing in a run and shoot.

Ernie Accorsi, Jerry Reese’s predecessor and mentor as GM for the Giants, was a pretty good assessor of talent. In the recent book about him, he specifically mentions a slow delivery as a serious QB defect. I’m pretty sure his tutoring of Reese included this concept. If that is the case, why would Reese even consider Woodson?

I’m willing to bet that Woodson leapfrogs Lorenzen and the other QB to be the back-up by next year. I can see why the kid would be disappointed by slipping to the 6th, but it’s stooopid to blame anything other than circumstance for that slide.

We all, of course, are aware of the spectacular players who find their way to the top after all the ‘experts’ ignore or ridicule them. Just sayin’.

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]]> By: nybeez80 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28491 nybeez80 Tue, 13 May 2008 15:52:31 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28491 This is absolutely absurd. Woodson thought he would go in the second round because of Todd McShay. Florio you are really reaching in order to bash another Giant. If you checked out most mock drafts Woodson went in rounds 2-4. I can't believe you are wasting time writing two articles about a 6th round draft pick. This is absolutely absurd. Woodson thought he would go in the second round because of Todd McShay. Florio you are really reaching in order to bash another Giant. If you checked out most mock drafts Woodson went in rounds 2-4. I can’t believe you are wasting time writing two articles about a 6th round draft pick.

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]]> By: Jeremiah W http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28479 Jeremiah W Tue, 13 May 2008 15:41:24 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28479 They are just guessing. What is the big deal? I thought he was a second round value pick going in, but he still may be the best QB in the draft. Tom Brady was not as good in college as he was. They are just guessing. What is the big deal? I thought he was a second round value pick going in, but he still may be the best QB in the draft. Tom Brady was not as good in college as he was.

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]]> By: yukonjacks44 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28464 yukonjacks44 Tue, 13 May 2008 15:16:22 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28464 I agree with the comments defending McShay. Two words: Priest Holmes. Should every scout in the league be fired, because he wasn't drafted? And the point is moot anyhow. We don't know what type of career Woodson will have in the league. Get back to us in three years. I agree with the comments defending McShay. Two words: Priest Holmes. Should every scout in the league be fired, because he wasn’t drafted? And the point is moot anyhow. We don’t know what type of career Woodson will have in the league. Get back to us in three years.

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]]> By: NFL Rumors http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28454 NFL Rumors Tue, 13 May 2008 15:05:57 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28454 This is comical. Come on now, Florio! You know I love ya but it is beyond absurd to blast a guy for not being correct about his evaluation regarding certain prospects. McShay is not a mind reader, you know. This source sounds extremely bitter. This is comical. Come on now, Florio! You know I love ya but it is beyond absurd to blast a guy for not being correct about his evaluation regarding certain prospects. McShay is not a mind reader, you know. This source sounds extremely bitter.

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]]> By: mborz http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28445 mborz Tue, 13 May 2008 14:57:34 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28445 First of all, I agree with those who say Woodson has only himself to blame if he based his opinion on any "expert". Even though these pre-draft opinions aren't taken seriously by most people, they get a lot of press coverage running up to and during the draft, and in that sense, you'd expect that the experts ought to get some kind of grade. It wouldn't be that hard to come up with a system to grade each expert, and there'd be no harm in comparing one expert to another. If few people take "expert" picks seriously in the first place, even fewer would take their ranking seriously, and it would give people who like to discuss these things (like me) even more to talk about during the offseason. Sure, in some sense it may not be fair to penalize an expert if a team reaches for a player. Think of Maurice Clarett -- most experts had him as a late second day pick, but the Broncos took a chance on him with a third-round pick, and it didn't work out. So, the Broncos were wrong (and they admit this), but it would penalize the expert's grade. But, if you're grading all of the experts against each other, and they all were in agreement as to where Clarett should have gone, then they'd all get dinged evenly. It wouldn't be perfect, but it could easily be done. First of all, I agree with those who say Woodson has only himself to blame if he based his opinion on any “expert”.

Even though these pre-draft opinions aren’t taken seriously by most people, they get a lot of press coverage running up to and during the draft, and in that sense, you’d expect that the experts ought to get some kind of grade.

It wouldn’t be that hard to come up with a system to grade each expert, and there’d be no harm in comparing one expert to another. If few people take “expert” picks seriously in the first place, even fewer would take their ranking seriously, and it would give people who like to discuss these things (like me) even more to talk about during the offseason.

Sure, in some sense it may not be fair to penalize an expert if a team reaches for a player. Think of Maurice Clarett — most experts had him as a late second day pick, but the Broncos took a chance on him with a third-round pick, and it didn’t work out. So, the Broncos were wrong (and they admit this), but it would penalize the expert’s grade. But, if you’re grading all of the experts against each other, and they all were in agreement as to where Clarett should have gone, then they’d all get dinged evenly.

It wouldn’t be perfect, but it could easily be done.

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]]> By: Mandmeisterx http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28441 Mandmeisterx Tue, 13 May 2008 14:53:02 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28441 I'd have to agree with Robby Redskin (aside from saying Charles Davis is decent). ESPN is quickly becoming the MTV of sports networks. All we need are a couple more reality shows. I’d have to agree with Robby Redskin (aside from saying Charles Davis is decent). ESPN is quickly becoming the MTV of sports networks. All we need are a couple more reality shows.

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]]> By: ryanmc http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28436 ryanmc Tue, 13 May 2008 14:46:45 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28436 "The problem with people like McShay is that they have no accountability" That pretty much sums up the entire media as a profession! “The problem with people like McShay is that they have no accountability”

That pretty much sums up the entire media as a profession!

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]]> By: GaryWheeler http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28431 GaryWheeler Tue, 13 May 2008 14:43:48 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28431 On January 16th, PFT gives us a list of college players and agents that they have signed with. Certainly, Todd McShay's Mock Draft occured after Woodson had already hired his agent. http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/01/16/2008-players-and-agents-list/ On January 16th, PFT gives us a list of college players and agents that they have signed with. Certainly, Todd McShay’s Mock Draft occured after Woodson had already hired his agent.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/01/16/2008-players-and-agents-list/

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]]> By: Robby Redskin http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28423 Robby Redskin Tue, 13 May 2008 14:35:49 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28423 This is typical ESPN. That network is the ultimate in "style over substance". Their analysts, scouts and personalities are clowns that can't get a real gig on a reputable network. NFL Network is running laps around ESPN; even "Path to the Draft" scrubs like Charles Davis are better than McShay and Kiper combined. Here's to hoping someone takes over ESPN and actually makes it a sports network again... This is typical ESPN. That network is the ultimate in “style over substance”. Their analysts, scouts and personalities are clowns that can’t get a real gig on a reputable network. NFL Network is running laps around ESPN; even “Path to the Draft” scrubs like Charles Davis are better than McShay and Kiper combined. Here’s to hoping someone takes over ESPN and actually makes it a sports network again…

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]]> By: trikee http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28422 trikee Tue, 13 May 2008 14:34:32 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28422 here's the link. you have to have "insider": http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0423 here’s the link. you have to have “insider”:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0423

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]]> By: pat in philly http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28421 pat in philly Tue, 13 May 2008 14:32:43 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28421 I don't really disagree with what most people are saying on here, but I will agree with the source that Jeremy Green is awful. Kiper has a ton of knowledge and is more than capable at giving a prospect's strengths and weaknesses and McShay, well is McShay. But, Green , in my opinion, has no clue and is obviously aided by who his Dad is. The only insight I ever heard from him was what the hell the Browns were thinking when he was there (it wasn't their glory years, yeh there aren't many) I don’t really disagree with what most people are saying on here, but I will agree with the source that Jeremy Green is awful. Kiper has a ton of knowledge and is more than capable at giving a prospect’s strengths and weaknesses and McShay, well is McShay.

But, Green , in my opinion, has no clue and is obviously aided by who his Dad is. The only insight I ever heard from him was what the hell the Browns were thinking when he was there (it wasn’t their glory years, yeh there aren’t many)

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]]> By: Pipes http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28416 Pipes Tue, 13 May 2008 14:25:40 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28416 It sounds like this "league source" is just bitter that McShay makes more dough than him. Actually, I'm sure that McShay could never hang with the "real scouts"- those guys never make mistakes in their evaluations. Cough...Tom Brady...Cough...Alex Smith. It sounds like this “league source” is just bitter that McShay makes more dough than him.

Actually, I’m sure that McShay could never hang with the “real scouts”- those guys never make mistakes in their evaluations. Cough…Tom Brady…Cough…Alex Smith.

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]]> By: brian5 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28411 brian5 Tue, 13 May 2008 14:22:32 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28411 Would you rather have analysts that grade players based on what they see or regurgitate what they hear from others? McShay, Kiper and the others obviously do the former. We'll know in a few years if McShay was right. Just because the NFL teams disagreed does not mean he was wrong so this source is getting ahead of himself. I honestly have not followed closely enough to go back and see how McShay's record has been in say a draft from 3-5 years ago. I don't think either McShay or Kiper could be successful scouts, at least without some further training, but the scouts probably wouldn't be too entertaining to watch on TV either. Would you rather have analysts that grade players based on what they see or regurgitate what they hear from others? McShay, Kiper and the others obviously do the former. We’ll know in a few years if McShay was right. Just because the NFL teams disagreed does not mean he was wrong so this source is getting ahead of himself. I honestly have not followed closely enough to go back and see how McShay’s record has been in say a draft from 3-5 years ago.

I don’t think either McShay or Kiper could be successful scouts, at least without some further training, but the scouts probably wouldn’t be too entertaining to watch on TV either.

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]]> By: Seymore_Butts http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28395 Seymore_Butts Tue, 13 May 2008 14:08:53 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28395 I'm going to echo other comments by saying it's a complete joke to place any blame on Todd McShay. They guy is paid to give an opinion, and like many others in his profession, he's not perfect. If he were being paid by Woodson and other draft eligible athletes, then that would be a completely different story. It's up to Woodson and the people in his corner to put out feelers before he even hires an agent to see what kind of stock he would have if he decides to enter the draft. I’m going to echo other comments by saying it’s a complete joke to place any blame on Todd McShay. They guy is paid to give an opinion, and like many others in his profession, he’s not perfect. If he were being paid by Woodson and other draft eligible athletes, then that would be a completely different story. It’s up to Woodson and the people in his corner to put out feelers before he even hires an agent to see what kind of stock he would have if he decides to enter the draft.

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]]> By: PSMITH http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28390 PSMITH Tue, 13 May 2008 14:04:27 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28390 If Woodson made his decision based strictly on internet mock drafts, he is an idiot. What was his Wonderlic score? Also, was McShay guessing where he would be drafted, or saying where he should be drafted? What if Woodson ends up having the success that merits a second/third round pick? Then he was right and the NFL teams were wrong. That being said I would love to see someone put out a mockdraft grades sheet. See which "experts" were the most accurate with their predictions. Maybe Billy Bob Jones from the BFE Gazzette was right on and should replace Kiper and McShay. Can someone give credit where it is due? If Woodson made his decision based strictly on internet mock drafts, he is an idiot. What was his Wonderlic score?

Also, was McShay guessing where he would be drafted, or saying where he should be drafted? What if Woodson ends up having the success that merits a second/third round pick? Then he was right and the NFL teams were wrong.

That being said I would love to see someone put out a mockdraft grades sheet. See which “experts” were the most accurate with their predictions. Maybe Billy Bob Jones from the BFE Gazzette was right on and should replace Kiper and McShay. Can someone give credit where it is due?

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]]> By: monger http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28384 monger Tue, 13 May 2008 13:59:56 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28384 Somebody did Woodson wrong, that's for sure, but who in their right mind would blame some idiot talking head on TV. Since when did McShay represent himself as speaking for any NFL club. Woodson might as well have gone down to Leroy's Barbershop and Auto Repair for his advice. Somebody did Woodson wrong, that’s for sure, but who in their right mind would blame some idiot talking head on TV. Since when did McShay represent himself as speaking for any NFL club. Woodson might as well have gone down to Leroy’s Barbershop and Auto Repair for his advice.

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]]> By: RSarin http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28381 RSarin Tue, 13 May 2008 13:57:45 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28381 McShay was 100% right. If Woodson has no accuracy and a propensity for interceptions, then he's pretty much the standard Bears QB these days. McShay was 100% right. If Woodson has no accuracy and a propensity for interceptions, then he’s pretty much the standard Bears QB these days.

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]]> By: ronry http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28380 ronry Tue, 13 May 2008 13:56:11 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28380 Why would any player pay attention to the mock drafts? Everybody and their brother has mock drafts. Why would any player pay attention to the mock drafts? Everybody and their brother has mock drafts.

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]]> By: Sampson http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28379 Sampson Tue, 13 May 2008 13:55:44 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28379 It's pretty weak to blame an ESPN "expert" for misleading a player about where he was going to get drafted. I thought it was the agent's job to determine the interest in his client. All of the mock drafts on ESPN (tv or website) seem to change every other day anyway. I guess Woodson's people should have come to this site more for the REAL inside information. It’s pretty weak to blame an ESPN “expert” for misleading a player about where he was going to get drafted. I thought it was the agent’s job to determine the interest in his client. All of the mock drafts on ESPN (tv or website) seem to change every other day anyway. I guess Woodson’s people should have come to this site more for the REAL inside information.

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]]> By: brian_21 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28378 brian_21 Tue, 13 May 2008 13:55:41 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28378 Two things. 1) No one is clairvoyant. People predict. Todd McShay did the best that he could. 2) He does not seem to be a good talent evaluator, though. And kids' families can get hurt. Kind of. But, like I say, c'mon. Except for McShay's Mock, I don't think anyone thought that there was a remote possibility that Andre Woodson would go in Day 1 or even early in Day 2. But ESPN's labels are troubling. Jeremy Green is no expert. Anyone can see that when reading what he writes. Todd McShay is no expert, either. The one that deserves credit is Mel Kiper for his innovativeness. Kiper started something huge and can preach on. And I don't think there are too many colossal screw ups with Kiper's predictions, relative to others'. ESPN should look at the obvious issues with McShay, Green, etc. But honestly, too ... just like when Allen Iverson discussed practices ... WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MOCK DRAFTS! College players should know what they are getting into, and if they feel like crying, then cry because you just saw The Notebook (great movie) or something ... not because you did not get drafted where you expected. No one cares. Two things.

1) No one is clairvoyant. People predict. Todd McShay did the best that he could.

2) He does not seem to be a good talent evaluator, though. And kids’ families can get hurt. Kind of. But, like I say, c’mon. Except for McShay’s Mock, I don’t think anyone thought that there was a remote possibility that Andre Woodson would go in Day 1 or even early in Day 2.

But ESPN’s labels are troubling. Jeremy Green is no expert. Anyone can see that when reading what he writes. Todd McShay is no expert, either.

The one that deserves credit is Mel Kiper for his innovativeness. Kiper started something huge and can preach on. And I don’t think there are too many colossal screw ups with Kiper’s predictions, relative to others’.

ESPN should look at the obvious issues with McShay, Green, etc. But honestly, too … just like when Allen Iverson discussed practices … WE’RE TALKING ABOUT MOCK DRAFTS! College players should know what they are getting into, and if they feel like crying, then cry because you just saw The Notebook (great movie) or something … not because you did not get drafted where you expected. No one cares.

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]]> By: Dan1919 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28376 Dan1919 Tue, 13 May 2008 13:54:01 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28376 JJCruiser, Dude, Andre Woodson cant have an AGENT and stay in school. His decision to go pro has to come without the advice of an agent. JJCruiser,

Dude, Andre Woodson cant have an AGENT and stay in school. His decision to go pro has to come without the advice of an agent.

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]]> By: msnyder275 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28375 msnyder275 Tue, 13 May 2008 13:53:49 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28375 Anything viewed on ESPN should be seen with a jaundiced eye...at least until the surgeon general forces warnings that state "watch at your own risk - extended viewing may cause severe mental damage" Anything viewed on ESPN should be seen with a jaundiced eye…at least until the surgeon general forces warnings that state “watch at your own risk - extended viewing may cause severe mental damage”

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]]> By: Dan1919 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28374 Dan1919 Tue, 13 May 2008 13:52:43 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28374 Andre Woodson could have stayed for his senior year at kentucky and 1. Got his education and 2. Maybe improved his draft stock. Thats why McShay has to be careful in his evaluations. McShay is making a cushy paycheck at ESPN, where will Andre Woodson be in 3 years? Andre Woodson could have stayed for his senior year at kentucky and 1. Got his education and 2. Maybe improved his draft stock.

Thats why McShay has to be careful in his evaluations. McShay is making a cushy paycheck at ESPN, where will Andre Woodson be in 3 years?

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]]> By: florioknowsfootball http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28368 florioknowsfootball Tue, 13 May 2008 13:49:48 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28368 Wait a second, trying to hold these guys accountable is pretty lame. All they are doing is offering their opinion, thus the term "Mock" Draft. Granted, I don't know or care really, what kind of evaluator McShay is, but what he does is simply entertainment for the masses of football junkies out there. And don't you think these guys also talk to coaches/scouts etc. as they fill out their Mocks? This is a case of PFT hunting for another way to take a dig at ESPN. As for the athletes and their families who are draft eligible, they need to listen to their agents and the teams that may or may not be bring them in for visits, no on else. Wait a second, trying to hold these guys accountable is pretty lame. All they are doing is offering their opinion, thus the term “Mock” Draft. Granted, I don’t know or care really, what kind of evaluator McShay is, but what he does is simply entertainment for the masses of football junkies out there. And don’t you think these guys also talk to coaches/scouts etc. as they fill out their Mocks? This is a case of PFT hunting for another way to take a dig at ESPN. As for the athletes and their families who are draft eligible, they need to listen to their agents and the teams that may or may not be bring them in for visits, no on else.

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]]> By: RedbullnRaiders http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28367 RedbullnRaiders Tue, 13 May 2008 13:48:30 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28367 Hahaha grillin' ESPN. I like your style. Hahaha grillin’ ESPN. I like your style.

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]]> By: Mr. Touchdown http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28366 Mr. Touchdown Tue, 13 May 2008 13:46:53 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28366 its because mock drafts are friggin retarded, just like people who pay any real attention to them. its because mock drafts are friggin retarded, just like people who pay any real attention to them.

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]]> By: Stoogie http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28363 Stoogie Tue, 13 May 2008 13:43:35 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28363 If McShay was all that good, he'd sit at the big table with the adults during the draft. Instead, Kiper is still occupying that seat, so I think that tells you how much ESPN really thinks of McShay. Regardless of McShay or Kiper, or any other wannabe scout, your league source should also spread the blame to Woodson's agent who should have more accurately gauged where Woodson was going to go and prepared him for it. Unless, of course, your league source IS Woodson's agent who is trying to deflect said blame from him to McShay. If McShay was all that good, he’d sit at the big table with the adults during the draft. Instead, Kiper is still occupying that seat, so I think that tells you how much ESPN really thinks of McShay.

Regardless of McShay or Kiper, or any other wannabe scout, your league source should also spread the blame to Woodson’s agent who should have more accurately gauged where Woodson was going to go and prepared him for it. Unless, of course, your league source IS Woodson’s agent who is trying to deflect said blame from him to McShay.

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]]> By: Scout http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28362 Scout Tue, 13 May 2008 13:41:59 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28362 The issue isn't that McShay and the rest are frequently wrong. The issue, if there is one, is that these guys who sucked enough at their jobs to get fired, are held up as "experts" by the on-lne media. The issue isn’t that McShay and the rest are frequently wrong. The issue, if there is one, is that these guys who sucked enough at their jobs to get fired, are held up as “experts” by the on-lne media.

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]]> By: brittreid http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28359 brittreid Tue, 13 May 2008 13:41:23 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28359 I honestly cannot focus in on what Todd is saying becuase I am always distracted by the obnoxious amount of pink lip stick he wears. Seriously, I know all the talking heads wear make-up, but dude... I always thought there should be a website that seriously tracks all the ESPN guys predictions, from preseason predictions, weekly picks, fantasy sleeper picks, etc. I would love to see the firm percentages of right vs. wrong. It would embarrass ESPN and be another nail in the broadcast TV coffin. I honestly cannot focus in on what Todd is saying becuase I am always distracted by the obnoxious amount of pink lip stick he wears. Seriously, I know all the talking heads wear make-up, but dude…

I always thought there should be a website that seriously tracks all the ESPN guys predictions, from preseason predictions, weekly picks, fantasy sleeper picks, etc. I would love to see the firm percentages of right vs. wrong. It would embarrass ESPN and be another nail in the broadcast TV coffin.

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]]> By: jjcruiser http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28356 jjcruiser Tue, 13 May 2008 13:41:16 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28356 Sheesh, I agree with Markpmac. Are you seriously blaming an ESPN guy for making a draftee's family sad? If anyone is to blame it is Woodson's AGENT who is supposed to know and properly prepare his client for where he will go. But I think if he's reading ESPN and thinking that means he will go where it says, Woodson's not being very smart and it's his own fault. Sheesh, I agree with Markpmac. Are you seriously blaming an ESPN guy for making a draftee’s family sad? If anyone is to blame it is Woodson’s AGENT who is supposed to know and properly prepare his client for where he will go. But I think if he’s reading ESPN and thinking that means he will go where it says, Woodson’s not being very smart and it’s his own fault.

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]]> By: Norcross http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28350 Norcross Tue, 13 May 2008 13:39:19 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28350 As much as I hate to say it, Kiper at least gets his evaluations somewhat accurate. As for the draft order, there's too much of a crapshoot to try it. After all, the Lions drafting will screw up everyone's board. As much as I hate to say it, Kiper at least gets his evaluations somewhat accurate. As for the draft order, there’s too much of a crapshoot to try it. After all, the Lions drafting will screw up everyone’s board.

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]]> By: Riceloft http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28349 Riceloft Tue, 13 May 2008 13:38:56 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28349 If you have the url for the McShay mock, you can try to use "the wayback machine" at www.archive.org to view the page as it was on a previous date. If you have the url for the McShay mock, you can try to use “the wayback machine” at http://www.archive.org to view the page as it was on a previous date.

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]]> By: RJ Carrano http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28348 RJ Carrano Tue, 13 May 2008 13:37:59 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28348 Well, you should tell your source, that if everyone was dead balls accurate on their evaluations, then players like Priest Holmes, Willie Parker, John Randle, Rod Smith, Wes Welker, James Harrison, Marc Bulger, Tom Brady, Matt Hasslebeck, Hines Ward, Derrick Anderson,Asante Samuel, Jason Peters, And Jeff Saturday would have all been 1st round picks. Correct? Well, you should tell your source, that if everyone was dead balls accurate on their evaluations, then players like Priest Holmes, Willie Parker, John Randle, Rod Smith, Wes Welker, James Harrison, Marc Bulger, Tom Brady, Matt Hasslebeck, Hines Ward, Derrick Anderson,Asante Samuel, Jason Peters, And Jeff Saturday would have all been 1st round picks. Correct?

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]]> By: markpmac http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28346 markpmac Tue, 13 May 2008 13:34:58 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/#comment-28346 Why does McShay have an obligation to be right? Every mock draft I've seen gets completely busted by pick 20 every single time. The only person who was right ALMOST all the time this year was Mike Mayock on NFLN. Why does McShay have an obligation to be right? Every mock draft I’ve seen gets completely busted by pick 20 every single time. The only person who was right ALMOST all the time this year was Mike Mayock on NFLN.

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