Comments on: TIMES HAS ANTI-PATS AGENDA? http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:01:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Flying elvis http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28404 Flying elvis Tue, 13 May 2008 14:16:15 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28404 The Pats are in decline and are 1 demensional LMAO! There are a lot of teams copying that team in decline. What you haters don't do if give the Giants any credit. They didn't just beat the Patriots. They went on the road and beat the Pakers and the Cowboys. Pretty tough row to hoe and I can't believe they did it. The Pats are in decline and are 1 demensional LMAO!
There are a lot of teams copying that team in decline. What you haters don’t do if give the Giants any credit. They didn’t just beat the Patriots. They went on the road and beat the Pakers and the Cowboys. Pretty tough row to hoe and I can’t believe they did it.

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]]> By: MaineMan http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28270 MaineMan Tue, 13 May 2008 04:23:48 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28270 nfl fanguy -- Where did I say, or even imply, that Belichick's prior less-than-stellar W/L record was "just Cleveland"? If you check the numbers I quoted, it's pretty obvious that I included his record with the Pats prior to Brady taking over as starter. BTW - as to Brady's "real level of ability"? Just watch him play. In nearly 50 years of following football, I don't think I've ever seen any QBs as consistently excellent in execution as Brady and Peyton Manning. nfl fanguy —

Where did I say, or even imply, that Belichick’s prior less-than-stellar W/L record was “just Cleveland”? If you check the numbers I quoted, it’s pretty obvious that I included his record with the Pats prior to Brady taking over as starter.

BTW - as to Brady’s “real level of ability”? Just watch him play. In nearly 50 years of following football, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any QBs as consistently excellent in execution as Brady and Peyton Manning.

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]]> By: Garret http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28256 Garret Tue, 13 May 2008 03:49:31 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28256 Save your keyboard, obviously, (Take it from a non-Pats fan) no matter what you say, these Pats-haters have blinders on. No matter how this whole fiasco plays out, they will be whining to he grave...they cheated...whaaa, whaa, whaaa, they cheated...whaaa, whaaa, cover up! That's right, NON-PATS FAN, RAIDER FAN...since 1972. Yes I remember the "Snow bowl", bad rule, correct interpatation. Save your keyboard, obviously, (Take it from a non-Pats fan) no matter what you say, these Pats-haters have blinders on. No matter how this whole fiasco plays out, they will be whining to he grave…they cheated…whaaa, whaa, whaaa, they cheated…whaaa, whaaa, cover up! That’s right, NON-PATS FAN, RAIDER FAN…since 1972. Yes I remember the “Snow bowl”, bad rule, correct interpatation.

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]]> By: subzero2401 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28230 subzero2401 Tue, 13 May 2008 02:34:04 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28230 Vandilay, you could not have put that any better. If these new englanders would take a peek outside of themselves they might actually see their team the way the rest of the world has come to. No matter how you break it down, or how you try to justify what they did, their accomplishments have been called into question...and rightfully so. And mikemboston...I meant every word I wrote. Where was Moss the last game of the season and in the playoffs, including the superbowl? If you answered "nowhere to be found" you'd be right. You can't be one dimensional in the NFL. That's big boy football. If you are arrogant enough to try to do one thing over and over, eventually teams will figure you out and stop it. And as for that old, decrepit defense...come on, are you kidding me? Who do you plan to stop with that collection of senior citizens? No wonder Rodney Harrison had to turn to HGH... Vandilay, you could not have put that any better. If these new englanders would take a peek outside of themselves they might actually see their team the way the rest of the world has come to. No matter how you break it down, or how you try to justify what they did, their accomplishments have been called into question…and rightfully so.

And mikemboston…I meant every word I wrote. Where was Moss the last game of the season and in the playoffs, including the superbowl? If you answered “nowhere to be found” you’d be right. You can’t be one dimensional in the NFL. That’s big boy football. If you are arrogant enough to try to do one thing over and over, eventually teams will figure you out and stop it. And as for that old, decrepit defense…come on, are you kidding me? Who do you plan to stop with that collection of senior citizens? No wonder Rodney Harrison had to turn to HGH…

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]]> By: nfl fanguy http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28186 nfl fanguy Tue, 13 May 2008 01:21:49 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28186 maine man, bellichek started out 5 and 15 in new england which was a .25o percentage. so it wasnt "just" cleveland as you seem to think. all of Brady's exploits are questionable...... since we now know that the Patriots were in possession of the opponents plays, it raises doubts as to his real level of ability, That is the real tragedy of all this......spygate has called everything that the players and team have done into question. Much as STEROIDS has tainted Bonds and several others, spygate has forever tarnished the Patriots and Brady..... hopefully they will win a few titles in the future so that air of legitimacy can be restored..... otherwise they will be remembered as faux champions much like their18-1 record this year is looked at as fools gold by losing to the Giants.... as much as its unfair to the fans and players of New England, that is how the rest of the world sees it..... if the Pats can win a Super Bowl or two going forward that would rightfully change..... For the players sake alone I for one hope they do.... maine man, bellichek started out 5 and 15 in new england which was a .25o percentage. so it wasnt “just” cleveland as you seem to think. all of Brady’s exploits are questionable…… since we now know that the Patriots were in possession of the opponents plays, it raises doubts as to his real level of ability,

That is the real tragedy of all this……spygate has called everything that the players and team have done into question. Much as STEROIDS has tainted Bonds and several others, spygate has forever tarnished the Patriots and Brady….. hopefully they will win a few titles in the future so that air of legitimacy can be restored….. otherwise they will be remembered as faux champions much like their18-1 record this year is looked at as fools gold by losing to the Giants….

as much as its unfair to the fans and players of New England, that is how the rest of the world sees it….. if the Pats can win a Super Bowl or two going forward that would rightfully change….. For the players sake alone I for one hope they do….

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]]> By: Vandilay_Industries http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28156 Vandilay_Industries Tue, 13 May 2008 00:43:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28156 mikemboston and other Pats*** clowns crack me up. Take a trip outside of your town and talk to football fans across the country. The majority of them don't like your team and only half of it has to do with their winning. They cheated. They've been cheating for years and they admitted it. And yes, it will be their legacy, punk. Everywhere except in Boston. mikemboston and other Pats*** clowns crack me up. Take a trip outside of your town and talk to football fans across the country. The majority of them don’t like your team and only half of it has to do with their winning.

They cheated. They’ve been cheating for years and they admitted it. And yes, it will be their legacy, punk. Everywhere except in Boston.

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]]> By: mikemboston http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28100 mikemboston Mon, 12 May 2008 23:05:07 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28100 Hey subzero, you're trying to be funny in a sarcastic way right? You don't actually mean "That team is on its way down with its one-dimensional offense and over-the-hill defense. Soon they'll fade back to the nothingness" do you?? If so you know about as much football as your average teenage chick...come to think of it that's what you sound like anyways. Hey subzero, you’re trying to be funny in a sarcastic way right? You don’t actually mean “That team is on its way down with its one-dimensional offense and over-the-hill defense. Soon they’ll fade back to the nothingness” do you??

If so you know about as much football as your average teenage chick…come to think of it that’s what you sound like anyways.

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]]> By: subzero2401 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28087 subzero2401 Mon, 12 May 2008 22:47:05 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28087 Why is so much time being spent on this story? Why are people even concerning themselves with the sorry, has-been pats? That team is on its way down with its one-dimensional offense and over-the-hill defense. Soon they'll fade back to the nothingness they were until a few years ago and all anyone will rmember is that they were cheaters and frauds. So let's move on, people. Even in mid-May there are better things to talk about. Why is so much time being spent on this story? Why are people even concerning themselves with the sorry, has-been pats? That team is on its way down with its one-dimensional offense and over-the-hill defense. Soon they’ll fade back to the nothingness they were until a few years ago and all anyone will rmember is that they were cheaters and frauds. So let’s move on, people. Even in mid-May there are better things to talk about.

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]]> By: CaptainFantastik http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28069 CaptainFantastik Mon, 12 May 2008 21:51:30 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28069 What Florio (and the rest of the sports media) needs to do is start citing hard evidence when they try and say "everybody does it". I have seen zero evidence of any kind indicating this was a widespread practice. Wanna know why? Because there isn't any, and because it's not a widespread practice. If it was there would be PLENTY of evidence. Funny how the Cheatriots' fans (and Florio in this case) always have to fall back on Jimmy Johnson's comments (a real character guy there by the way......LOL). Florio cites a 1967 piece and uses it to describe "modern football"? Please. Today's NFL is nothing lile it was in 1967. Hell, it's not even all that similar to what it was in 1987. Oh and by the way, here's a quote by Marv Levy (same era as Johnson) saying he never did it and didn't know of anybody else doing it: "I saw one or two other former coaches say, Oh, everybody does it. Baloney. I didn't do it, and I know many others who didn't do that type of thing." http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1699865,00.html Also gotta love Cheatriots fans trying to lump signal taping in with on-field infractions like holding and horse collar tackles. Please. That's just pathetic. Oh and by the way, YES, video taping signals is against the rules REGARDLESS of the location. Here's the reminder the league was sent before the season: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game." Pretty straight-forward. That's why nobody believes Bill Belicheat when he days he mis-interpreted the rule. Pretty cut and dry. One other thing I find interesting is that Cheatriots fans think they've somehow dodged a bullet with the news that there's not a Super Bowl walk-through tape (at least not in Walsh's posession). LOL. We now have hard evidence that the Cheatriots have cheated since 2000, and that there's a tape of an AFC Championship game. The Cheatriots were cheating during the 2002 AFCCG and there's physical evidence of it. What Florio (and the rest of the sports media) needs to do is start citing hard evidence when they try and say “everybody does it”. I have seen zero evidence of any kind indicating this was a widespread practice. Wanna know why? Because there isn’t any, and because it’s not a widespread practice. If it was there would be PLENTY of evidence. Funny how the Cheatriots’ fans (and Florio in this case) always have to fall back on Jimmy Johnson’s comments (a real character guy there by the way……LOL). Florio cites a 1967 piece and uses it to describe “modern football”? Please. Today’s NFL is nothing lile it was in 1967. Hell, it’s not even all that similar to what it was in 1987. Oh and by the way, here’s a quote by Marv Levy (same era as Johnson) saying he never did it and didn’t know of anybody else doing it:

“I saw one or two other former coaches say, Oh, everybody does it. Baloney. I didn’t do it, and I know many others who didn’t do that type of thing.”

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1699865,00.html

Also gotta love Cheatriots fans trying to lump signal taping in with on-field infractions like holding and horse collar tackles. Please. That’s just pathetic.

Oh and by the way, YES, video taping signals is against the rules REGARDLESS of the location. Here’s the reminder the league was sent before the season:

“Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.”

Pretty straight-forward. That’s why nobody believes Bill Belicheat when he days he mis-interpreted the rule. Pretty cut and dry.

One other thing I find interesting is that Cheatriots fans think they’ve somehow dodged a bullet with the news that there’s not a Super Bowl walk-through tape (at least not in Walsh’s posession). LOL. We now have hard evidence that the Cheatriots have cheated since 2000, and that there’s a tape of an AFC Championship game. The Cheatriots were cheating during the 2002 AFCCG and there’s physical evidence of it.

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]]> By: Rob0769 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28044 Rob0769 Mon, 12 May 2008 20:55:22 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28044 VeggieBurgher, Apparently the NYT themselves think they got it wrong since they have revised the article online. Of course it is bad journalism. Stacey James reportedly asked the Times reporter if they were going to look into specific claims of cheating by other teams (and he listed examples to the reporter)and the response was that they were not interested in exploring possible cheating by any other team and only wanted to get information of the Pats cheating allegations. How is that good journalism? Also, using one source is not good journalism. The general rule of thumb is using three independent sources. The one source they used could not like the Patriots and wouldn't mind trashing them. That is why using three sources is the standard. Anyone with a journalism background will tell you the NYT piece is bad journalism. Plain and simple. Reporting the news shouldn't be biased and the story should take the reporter where the information takes them, not the report making the information fit his story. VeggieBurgher,

Apparently the NYT themselves think they got it wrong since they have revised the article online.

Of course it is bad journalism. Stacey James reportedly asked the Times reporter if they were going to look into specific claims of cheating by other teams (and he listed examples to the reporter)and the response was that they were not interested in exploring possible cheating by any other team and only wanted to get information of the Pats cheating allegations. How is that good journalism?

Also, using one source is not good journalism. The general rule of thumb is using three independent sources. The one source they used could not like the Patriots and wouldn’t mind trashing them. That is why using three sources is the standard.

Anyone with a journalism background will tell you the NYT piece is bad journalism. Plain and simple. Reporting the news shouldn’t be biased and the story should take the reporter where the information takes them, not the report making the information fit his story.

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]]> By: Flying elvis http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28024 Flying elvis Mon, 12 May 2008 20:07:53 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28024 It was said the Raiders used to coach how to get away with penalties. Not many teams are going to cry cheater cheater on them now adays thoguh. You have to win first. Patriots are the best at that right now. It was said the Raiders used to coach how to get away with penalties. Not many teams are going to cry cheater cheater on them now adays thoguh. You have to win first. Patriots are the best at that right now.

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]]> By: Flying elvis http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28023 Flying elvis Mon, 12 May 2008 20:04:02 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28023 The Raiders used to coach how to get away with penalties. Not many teams are going to cry cheater cheater on them though. the Pats win so much, that is why they have a big target on them. The Raiders used to coach how to get away with penalties. Not many teams are going to cry cheater cheater on them though. the Pats win so much, that is why they have a big target on them.

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]]> By: Rob0769 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28004 Rob0769 Mon, 12 May 2008 19:34:35 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-28004 So apparently the New York Times has updated this story online several times to take out wording that makes this article more damning to the Patriots. If you compare the early print editions of the NYT and the current web article, there are at least five changes to tone down the rhetoric against the Patriots. Note to Mike Florio. It would be a good story to for you to publish all the changes. I know one of the changes is the line: "The league has handled the complaints internally, finding no proof for all but one" used to a "a few". So apparently the New York Times has updated this story online several times to take out wording that makes this article more damning to the Patriots. If you compare the early print editions of the NYT and the current web article, there are at least five changes to tone down the rhetoric against the Patriots.

Note to Mike Florio. It would be a good story to for you to publish all the changes. I know one of the changes is the line:

“The league has handled the complaints internally, finding no proof for all but one” used to a “a few”.

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]]> By: VeggieBurgher http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27943 VeggieBurgher Mon, 12 May 2008 18:22:34 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27943 How is the Times' article wrong? All they said is that there have been several changes to the manual in the last several years (fact) and that the Patriots are alleged to be cheaters by more teams than any other team (only support cited is the NFL executive, but does this idea really surprise anyone?). You can say "oh, the other teams are just jealous of the Patriots" but does anyone really think that some other team is alleged to cheat more often? If so, what team and what is your evidence? The Times has an NFL executive who says it's the Patriots. If that's bad journalism, then come forward with your proof. Pats fans hate all of the cheating talk, but the bottom line is that some team will be named the most by other teams and it happens to be the Pats, according to the executive. Reporting this story hardly constitutes an "anti-Pats bias." It's funny that the same Pats fans who complain that everyone else is a dumb conspiracy theorist is quick to have their own conspiracy theory that the NY Times is out to get the Pats. How is the Times’ article wrong? All they said is that there have been several changes to the manual in the last several years (fact) and that the Patriots are alleged to be cheaters by more teams than any other team (only support cited is the NFL executive, but does this idea really surprise anyone?). You can say “oh, the other teams are just jealous of the Patriots” but does anyone really think that some other team is alleged to cheat more often? If so, what team and what is your evidence? The Times has an NFL executive who says it’s the Patriots. If that’s bad journalism, then come forward with your proof. Pats fans hate all of the cheating talk, but the bottom line is that some team will be named the most by other teams and it happens to be the Pats, according to the executive. Reporting this story hardly constitutes an “anti-Pats bias.” It’s funny that the same Pats fans who complain that everyone else is a dumb conspiracy theorist is quick to have their own conspiracy theory that the NY Times is out to get the Pats.

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]]> By: MikeInSouthie http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27841 MikeInSouthie Mon, 12 May 2008 13:28:22 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27841 The NYTimes has a 17% share ownership in Fenway Park and the Red Sox. they have a VESTED interested in discrediting the Patriots so as to maximize their investment in the Sox. Both teams battle for the limited advertising revenue available. What the NY Times and the Boston Herald are doing to the Patriots is at a minimum UNFAIR. The NYTimes has a 17% share ownership in Fenway Park and the Red Sox.
they have a VESTED interested in discrediting the Patriots so as to maximize their investment in the Sox.
Both teams battle for the limited advertising revenue available.
What the NY Times and the Boston Herald are doing to the Patriots is at a minimum UNFAIR.

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]]> By: Rob0769 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27811 Rob0769 Mon, 12 May 2008 12:21:08 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27811 nfl fanguy, You are right. The Pats had the best defense in the league in 2003 and the second best defense in 2004. How could he had done that without know the opposing team's defensive signals? Makes sense huh? Sorry, Belichick didn't have Brady in Cleveland. Didn't have control of his personnel in Cleveland. Didn't have Scott Pioli to help scout and manage personnel in Cleveland. nfl fanguy,

You are right. The Pats had the best defense in the league in 2003 and the second best defense in 2004. How could he had done that without know the opposing team’s defensive signals? Makes sense huh?

Sorry, Belichick didn’t have Brady in Cleveland. Didn’t have control of his personnel in Cleveland. Didn’t have Scott Pioli to help scout and manage personnel in Cleveland.

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]]> By: Rob0769 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27809 Rob0769 Mon, 12 May 2008 12:14:52 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27809 mercutio, Keep dreaming. If Goodell does attacl the radio communications issue at all, it will be to say he has no credible evidence that the Patriots ever tried to block them. Even if the Patriots did block radio communications (which I seriously doubt and it is a charge that many teams have been accused of), Walsh wouldn't know anything about it. I doubt a low level cameraman would be privvy to that to that type of stuff on any team. Wow! These wild theories are out there. It is over. Sorry to disapoint you. mercutio,

Keep dreaming. If Goodell does attacl the radio communications issue at all, it will be to say he has no credible evidence that the Patriots ever tried to block them. Even if the Patriots did block radio communications (which I seriously doubt and it is a charge that many teams have been accused of), Walsh wouldn’t know anything about it. I doubt a low level cameraman would be privvy to that to that type of stuff on any team.

Wow! These wild theories are out there. It is over. Sorry to disapoint you.

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]]> By: GR365 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27808 GR365 Mon, 12 May 2008 12:09:42 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27808 The Times and Boston Herald should be ashamed of hyping this story to unprecidented levels of "Wategate Break in" have again shown thier true colors. Which is worse? A newspaper who spreads disinformation about a man doing his job! Weather, we agree with his interpretation of a rule. He was wrong, fined and shunned by the very people who would love to see him go down in a smoldering heap! A US Senator abusing his authority in an oversight committee. All in the guile of fairplay? A Sen. who spread disinformation concerning what was on the evidence list! All the while denying his constituents a chance to get the NFLN for free? Making a statements while selling a book stating that there was a "walkthrough tape". ESPN stating that poor Matt couldn't speak up because of a confidentiality agreement that never existed? Even though Mike Fish wrote in his Feb 08 story that "no agreement existed", per the Patriots and Bob Kraft! Clayton and Mortenson weren't aware of this fact! Maybe ESPN should watch some of thier own tapes? Last but not least, and the sad part really. Bill Belichick has been consistent and upfront with the Commissioner! The haters have had months, even years in a few cases. Still no new evidence Mike Fish. Offensive groupings? Since when was trying to figure out groupings was against the rules? It's very clear to me that there are those who have an agenda vs. BB and now it's crystal clear that the facts of the case are not the most important issue here! If it was this story would've been over months ago! The Times and Boston Herald should be ashamed of hyping this story to unprecidented levels of “Wategate Break in” have again shown thier true colors.
Which is worse? A newspaper who spreads disinformation about a man doing his job! Weather, we agree with his interpretation of a rule. He was wrong, fined and shunned by the very people who would love to see him go down in a smoldering heap!
A US Senator abusing his authority in an oversight committee. All in the guile of fairplay? A Sen. who spread disinformation concerning what was on the evidence list! All the while denying his constituents a chance to get the NFLN for free? Making a statements while selling a book stating that there was a “walkthrough tape”.
ESPN stating that poor Matt couldn’t speak up because of a confidentiality agreement that never existed? Even though Mike Fish wrote in his Feb 08 story that “no agreement existed”, per the Patriots and Bob Kraft! Clayton and Mortenson weren’t aware of this fact! Maybe ESPN should watch some of thier own tapes?
Last but not least, and the sad part really. Bill Belichick has been consistent and upfront with the Commissioner! The haters have had months, even years in a few cases. Still no new evidence Mike Fish. Offensive groupings? Since when was trying to figure out groupings was against the rules? It’s very clear to me that there are those who have an agenda vs. BB and now it’s crystal clear that the facts of the case are not the most important issue here! If it was this story would’ve been over months ago!

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]]> By: MaineMan http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27797 MaineMan Mon, 12 May 2008 10:44:40 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27797 Belichick's record before Tom Brady: 41-59 Belichick's record WITH Tom Brady: 86-22 plus 3 Superbowl victories. Yup! <em>Clearly</em> something is amiss. He should never have been allowed to use Tom Brady at QB. Belichick’s record before Tom Brady: 41-59

Belichick’s record WITH Tom Brady: 86-22 plus 3 Superbowl victories.

Yup! Clearly something is amiss. He should never have been allowed to use Tom Brady at QB.

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]]> By: nfl fanguy http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27783 nfl fanguy Mon, 12 May 2008 05:13:03 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27783 the most telling fact to me is this: Bellicheks record before developing a database of tapes ; 41-59 Bellicheks record before developing a database of tapes ; 86-22 thats a .410 percentage before and .800 after.... it doesn't take a genius to see that the 3 titles are tainted. but dont blame pats fans.....they readily admit that fact... all they are doing is supporting their team as they should..... all they want is consistent coverage and not to be singled out as the only ones cheating..... others cheat as well......only that the Pats were much more successful at it. the most telling fact to me is this:

Bellicheks record before developing a database of tapes ; 41-59

Bellicheks record before developing a database of tapes ; 86-22

thats a .410 percentage before and .800 after…. it doesn’t take a genius to see that the 3 titles are tainted.

but dont blame pats fans…..they readily admit that fact… all they are doing is supporting their team as they should…..

all they want is consistent coverage and not to be singled out as the only ones cheating….. others cheat as well……only that the Pats were much more successful at it.

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]]> By: nfl fanguy http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27782 nfl fanguy Mon, 12 May 2008 04:56:56 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27782 florio is pretty fair in his comments.....thats not the issue pat fans will always support their team as they should.....they are loyal fans with a reason to support them. so their bias is natural... the most damning evidence to me is this.... Bill Bellicheks record as an NFL coach before developing a database of tapes via spygate: 41-59 Bill Bellicheks record as an NFL coach after developing a database of tapes via spygate: 86-22 that is an .410 percentage before and an .800 percentage after. it doesn't take a genius to see that something is likely amiss.... certainly there is a taint to the 3 Super Bowl titles.... but pats fans readily admit that..... all they are asking for is consstency in reporting. remember Pats fans didnt cheat... they are only rooting for thir team as the hould florio is pretty fair in his comments…..thats not the issue

pat fans will always support their team as they should…..they are loyal fans with a reason to support them. so their bias is natural…

the most damning evidence to me is this….

Bill Bellicheks record as an NFL coach before developing a database of tapes via spygate:

41-59

Bill Bellicheks record as an NFL coach after developing a database of tapes via spygate:

86-22

that is an .410 percentage before and an .800 percentage after. it doesn’t take a genius to see that something is likely amiss…. certainly there is a taint to the 3 Super Bowl titles…. but pats fans readily admit that….. all they are asking for is consstency in reporting.

remember Pats fans didnt cheat… they are only rooting for thir team as the hould

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]]> By: wingnut http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27781 wingnut Mon, 12 May 2008 04:50:49 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27781 Hey Wrathchild, Iron Maiden rocks! however, Where'd you get the word where'd from, is it a word? Hey Wrathchild, Iron Maiden rocks! however, Where’d you get the word where’d from, is it a word?

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]]> By: Henry Plainview http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27780 Henry Plainview Mon, 12 May 2008 04:23:03 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27780 look it up wrathchild look it up wrathchild

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]]> By: fulcher33 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27779 fulcher33 Mon, 12 May 2008 04:12:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27779 Ummm... Didn't someone write a article for sporting news about a league wide problem of off the field issues?? That certain person also was bias and singled out the Bengals when clearly every team has turds on it! Ummm… Didn’t someone write a article for sporting news about a league wide problem of off the field issues?? That certain person also was bias and singled out the Bengals when clearly every team has turds on it!

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]]> By: bushy http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27776 bushy Mon, 12 May 2008 03:46:11 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27776 "Replace the word patriots with the word cardinals back in september and this is a complete non issue." Yeah, but to be fair, replace ANY word in the English language with "Cardinals" and it becomes a complete non-issue. “Replace the word patriots with the word cardinals back in september and this is a complete non issue.”

Yeah, but to be fair, replace ANY word in the English language with “Cardinals” and it becomes a complete non-issue.

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]]> By: Noriega http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27774 Noriega Mon, 12 May 2008 03:37:32 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27774 It's the location of the taping Wrath. From the NFL rules book: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead." The location of the camera man on the sidelines breaks this rule. It allows the team to have access to the tapes during the game. Any signals filmed while taping from appropriate locations are fair game. In addition, teams can have people on the sidelines stealing signals and writing down all the same info, (i.e. down, distance, score, etc...). That info can then be edited in with game footage after the game. It’s the location of the taping Wrath.

From the NFL rules book: “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game…All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.”

The location of the camera man on the sidelines breaks this rule. It allows the team to have access to the tapes during the game. Any signals filmed while taping from appropriate locations are fair game. In addition, teams can have people on the sidelines stealing signals and writing down all the same info, (i.e. down, distance, score, etc…). That info can then be edited in with game footage after the game.

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]]> By: mercutio http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27772 mercutio Mon, 12 May 2008 03:36:01 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27772 Here is how this thing breaks. What will happen is on Tuesday Goodell and et all will meet, they will go over stuff on the tapes. Then goodell has his press conference gives the okay. While he is doing his press conference, walsh and levy meet with Spector. This is where it gets very interesting. While the piece in the times is very much a hatchet job in my opinion. Given the times propensity to be more on Spector's and Walsh's side, I think the headset communication issue is where they attack. As previously stated on this site and others, the offensive and defensive signals are a non issue at this point, rightly or wrongly they are old news. What is not old news is the headset communication.It prolongs the arguement longer which is Spectors goal and can say that Goodell is trying to sweep this under the rug. I believe that Goodell will go based on what is on the tapes and will not go with heresay from Walsh, which is why he will get outmanouvered on this one again. Here is how this thing breaks. What will happen is on Tuesday Goodell and et all will meet, they will go over stuff on the tapes. Then goodell has his press conference gives the okay. While he is doing his press conference, walsh and levy meet with Spector. This is where it gets very interesting. While the piece in the times is very much a hatchet job in my opinion. Given the times propensity to be more on Spector’s and Walsh’s side, I think the headset communication issue is where they attack. As previously stated on this site and others, the offensive and defensive signals are a non issue at this point, rightly or wrongly they are old news. What is not old news is the headset communication.It prolongs the arguement longer which is Spectors goal and can say that Goodell is trying to sweep this under the rug. I believe that Goodell will go based on what is on the tapes and will not go with heresay from Walsh, which is why he will get outmanouvered on this one again.

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]]> By: JoeSixPack http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27767 JoeSixPack Mon, 12 May 2008 03:14:40 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27767 Wrathchild, a Passionate Fan, says: "What? It was not legal to tape until 2006; where’d you get that from?" Are guys kidding me? You really have never read the rule you all seem so righteous about? Not only is it legal, the rule clearly states where and how tapes should be obtained. If you had any doubts whe Dolphins were caught using taped signal calls and the NFL clearly stated "That's football" and didn't even care where or how they got them - and that was AFTER the 2006 clarifying memo. Taping signals is still legal TODAY. Are all you people really not understanding that? Read the rule for yourself. Taping (for signals or anything else) is legal from the proper location. Taping from the sidelines taping is a no no... and until 2006 it was only a no no if it was going to be used for THAT game. [b]NFL Policy Manual for Member Clubs, Volume II: NFL Game Operations Manual, General, Pages A105-A106: V. Miscellaneous Rules and Regulations A. No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game. B. If clubs believe that violations of any of the Origination, Editing, Exchange, or Shipping rules have occurred, such violations should be brought to the attention of the Vice President of Officiating. Also, please inform the Video Directors Committee of any known violations. The Competition Committee will also urge that the Commissioner take appropriate disciplinary action in cases of substantiated violations. C. Teams will be required to supply a yearly allotment of tapes to the Dub Center at NFL Films. Quantity required per club will be given to each team by May prior to the upcoming season. Tape stock will consist of brand-new 62-minute Beta SX tapes. For the 2007 season, 4,400 NEW tapes will be required. D. To ensure the protection of equipment and employees of the team's video departments, please follow the guidelines listed for the video shooting locations at your stadium: -All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead. -Any doors entering the shooting locations within the public seating areas of the stadium are required to be lockable from both the inside and the outside of the location to prevent unwarranted access. -All locations must have climate control (heat and/or fans). Any heaters and/or fans must be completely operational and produce the effect that is required. Heaters that do not produce any heat should be replaced. -All locations must supply adequate power for each team (at least two outlets per team). -All locations must be installed with the required video printer lines from both the sideline and the end zone shooting locations to the coaches' booth and field. It is not required that wiring be installed for the opposite end zone position, but if the opposite end zone is wired for the home team, it must also be wired for the visiting team. Home teams must provide visiting teams with the same situational set up for printers that they have themselves (i.e. cover, placement behind the bench, etc.) -It is suggested that each location provide either countertop space or tables for both teams in the booth and a table on the field and coaches' booth. Please ascertain that your club is in compliance with these guidelines. ... NFL Constitution and Bylaws: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game." September 2006 memorandum by NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson: "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game." [/b] Wrathchild, a Passionate Fan, says: “What? It was not legal to tape until 2006; where’d you get that from?”

Are guys kidding me? You really have never read the rule you all seem so righteous about?

Not only is it legal, the rule clearly states where and how tapes should be obtained. If you had any doubts whe Dolphins were caught using taped signal calls and the NFL clearly stated “That’s football” and didn’t even care where or how they got them - and that was AFTER the 2006 clarifying memo.

Taping signals is still legal TODAY. Are all you people really not understanding that?

Read the rule for yourself. Taping (for signals or anything else) is legal from the proper location. Taping from the sidelines taping is a no no… and until 2006 it was only a no no if it was going to be used for THAT game.

[b]NFL Policy Manual for Member Clubs, Volume II: NFL Game Operations Manual, General, Pages A105-A106:

V. Miscellaneous Rules and Regulations

A. No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.

B. If clubs believe that violations of any of the Origination, Editing, Exchange, or Shipping rules have occurred, such violations should be brought to the attention of the Vice President of Officiating. Also, please inform the Video Directors Committee of any known violations. The Competition Committee will also urge that the Commissioner take appropriate disciplinary action in cases of substantiated violations.

C. Teams will be required to supply a yearly allotment of tapes to the Dub Center at NFL Films. Quantity required per club will be given to each team by May prior to the upcoming season. Tape stock will consist of brand-new 62-minute Beta SX tapes. For the 2007 season, 4,400 NEW tapes will be required.

D. To ensure the protection of equipment and employees of the team’s video departments, please follow the guidelines listed for the video shooting locations at your stadium:

-All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.

-Any doors entering the shooting locations within the public seating areas of the stadium are required to be lockable from both the inside and the outside of the location to prevent unwarranted access.

-All locations must have climate control (heat and/or fans). Any heaters and/or fans must be completely operational and produce the effect that is required. Heaters that do not produce any heat should be replaced.

-All locations must supply adequate power for each team (at least two outlets per team).

-All locations must be installed with the required video printer lines from both the sideline and the end zone shooting locations to the coaches’ booth and field. It is not required that wiring be installed for the opposite end zone position, but if the opposite end zone is wired for the home team, it must also be wired for the visiting team. Home teams must provide visiting teams with the same situational set up for printers that they have themselves (i.e. cover, placement behind the bench, etc.)

-It is suggested that each location provide either countertop space or tables for both teams in the booth and a table on the field and coaches’ booth.

Please ascertain that your club is in compliance with these guidelines.

…

NFL Constitution and Bylaws:

“Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

September 2006 memorandum by NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson:

“videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.” [/b]

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]]> By: Nitro http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27757 Nitro Mon, 12 May 2008 02:22:59 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27757 Replace the word patriots with the word cardinals back in september and this is a complete non issue. Replace the word patriots with the word cardinals back in september and this is a complete non issue.

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]]> By: Wrathchild http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27750 Wrathchild Mon, 12 May 2008 01:53:09 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27750 What? It was not legal to tape until 2006; where'd you get that from? What? It was not legal to tape until 2006; where’d you get that from?

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]]> By: wingnut http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27743 wingnut Mon, 12 May 2008 01:19:44 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27743 "It Was A Fumble" “It Was A Fumble”

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]]> By: Henry Plainview http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27741 Henry Plainview Mon, 12 May 2008 01:09:42 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27741 the Pats were 7-4 with the Walsh tapes....18-1 without. it was legal to tape until 2006.....so 200o-2 is irrelevant. the Pats were 7-4 with the Walsh tapes….18-1 without.
it was legal to tape until 2006…..so 200o-2 is irrelevant.

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]]> By: MaineMan http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27738 MaineMan Mon, 12 May 2008 01:02:28 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27738 <strong>Robo769</strong> - you forgot something: The fact that the Patriots have had one of the top defenses in the league for several years in a row is only because they videotaped the defensive signals of their opponents and those Pats defenses contributed nada to their winning seasons and Superbowl victories. Wait. Wha? BTW - is it "cheating" to uprate one's own comment? If so, well, oopsie! Robo769 - you forgot something:

The fact that the Patriots have had one of the top defenses in the league for several years in a row is only because they videotaped the defensive signals of their opponents and those Pats defenses contributed nada to their winning seasons and Superbowl victories.

Wait. Wha?

BTW - is it “cheating” to uprate one’s own comment? If so, well, oopsie!

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]]> By: Rob0769 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27734 Rob0769 Mon, 12 May 2008 00:52:02 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27734 foober, The Pats were caught and punished. Hey, the Bromcos were caught cheating to win their Super Bowl and were fined nearly a million dollars and had a third round draft pick taken away from them for their cheating. Time heals all wounds. foober,

The Pats were caught and punished. Hey, the Bromcos were caught cheating to win their Super Bowl and were fined nearly a million dollars and had a third round draft pick taken away from them for their cheating. Time heals all wounds.

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]]> By: Rob0769 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27733 Rob0769 Mon, 12 May 2008 00:49:15 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27733 "You’re going to be waiting a long time to hear that, my friend." I already said I wouldn't. But to celebrate that fact like you want to, is moronic. The death of legitimate journalism is a horrible thing. If you love it, you are part of the problem. The press feel they have to dumb down and sensationalize the news for the mindless masses who only have the attention for scandal, sleaze, and controversy. How is that a good thing and something to be celebrated? “You’re going to be waiting a long time to hear that, my friend.”

I already said I wouldn’t. But to celebrate that fact like you want to, is moronic. The death of legitimate journalism is a horrible thing. If you love it, you are part of the problem. The press feel they have to dumb down and sensationalize the news for the mindless masses who only have the attention for scandal, sleaze, and controversy. How is that a good thing and something to be celebrated?

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]]> By: foober http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27727 foober Mon, 12 May 2008 00:35:02 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27727 The point the pats supporters refuse to see is the pats cheated to win those trophys. So give em back and fire bellycheat and krapft who allowed the cheating. What part of playing fair and doing the right thing do the pats fans not understand. The point the pats supporters refuse to see is the pats cheated to win those trophys.

So give em back and fire bellycheat and krapft who allowed the cheating.

What part of playing fair and doing the right thing do the pats fans not understand.

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]]> By: MaineMan http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27725 MaineMan Mon, 12 May 2008 00:34:32 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27725 Having lived in Detroit for nearly 50 years and then moving to New England, I gotta say that being a fan of a team that is hated and reviled by (seemingly) everyone BUT its own fans is quite the new experience. I wonder how much hate there would be for the Patriots if their record was more like the Lions'. Oh, and as to the question about which is more important in the grand scheme of things - whether or not some NFL team potentially "cheated" while winning three Superbowls or whether some guy potentially got pepper-sprayed by Texas cops for "boating while black" - <em>obviously</em> the Superbowl/cheating thingie is WAAAAaaaaaayy more important! Having lived in Detroit for nearly 50 years and then moving to New England, I gotta say that being a fan of a team that is hated and reviled by (seemingly) everyone BUT its own fans is quite the new experience. I wonder how much hate there would be for the Patriots if their record was more like the Lions’.

Oh, and as to the question about which is more important in the grand scheme of things - whether or not some NFL team potentially “cheated” while winning three Superbowls or whether some guy potentially got pepper-sprayed by Texas cops for “boating while black” - obviously the Superbowl/cheating thingie is WAAAAaaaaaayy more important!

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]]> By: Wrathchild http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27721 Wrathchild Mon, 12 May 2008 00:12:31 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27721 "I do not want the new media to tell me the story I want to hear, I want them to tell the truth." You're going to be waiting a long time to hear that, my friend. “I do not want the new media to tell me the story I want to hear, I want them to tell the truth.”

You’re going to be waiting a long time to hear that, my friend.

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]]> By: JoeSixPack http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27720 JoeSixPack Mon, 12 May 2008 00:11:52 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27720 It's amazing to read these threads... we have Broncos fans all but calling for an asterisk next to the Patriots title when they were twice caught cheating on the salary cap and fined more than twice as much as the Patriots. You've got Dolphins fans decrying playcall taping in 2001 while the Fins were caught themselves doing so in 2006 when the League made clear that there was nothing wrong with this (those of you who actually think that taping playcalling is ILLEGAL should get a clue from that instance alone) You've got Colts fans thinking Dungy is above it all when he made a point of hiring the coach who everyone admits is the "best" at taping playcalls and analyzing them. You've got Jets fans who seem to believe the Patriots coaching staff is the NFL equivilent of Satan, now decrying the taping of offensive playcalling by the Patriot Defense and have seem to forgotten who the Defensive coordinator for the Patriots was. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Forgive me, but I do believe that all teams in the NFL are "cheaters" - the only difference as I see it is that the Patriots are just cheaters while other teams are cheaters and hypocrits (with the exception of the Jets, who's coach is a cheater, hypocrit, AND a rat.) It’s amazing to read these threads… we have Broncos fans all but calling for an asterisk next to the Patriots title when they were twice caught cheating on the salary cap and fined more than twice as much as the Patriots.

You’ve got Dolphins fans decrying playcall taping in 2001 while the Fins were caught themselves doing so in 2006 when the League made clear that there was nothing wrong with this (those of you who actually think that taping playcalling is ILLEGAL should get a clue from that instance alone)

You’ve got Colts fans thinking Dungy is above it all when he made a point of hiring the coach who everyone admits is the “best” at taping playcalls and analyzing them.

You’ve got Jets fans who seem to believe the Patriots coaching staff is the NFL equivilent of Satan, now decrying the taping of offensive playcalling by the Patriot Defense and have seem to forgotten who the Defensive coordinator for the Patriots was.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Forgive me, but I do believe that all teams in the NFL are “cheaters” - the only difference as I see it is that the Patriots are just cheaters while other teams are cheaters and hypocrits (with the exception of the Jets, who’s coach is a cheater, hypocrit, AND a rat.)

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]]> By: nulliform http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27718 nulliform Mon, 12 May 2008 00:08:04 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27718 Mike Florio is my frikkin hero - finally, a real journalist has written this about the Times. The Boston Herald, I can deal with that - you read that for Nostradamus's predictions about the Bruins, or whatever. But people believe what's in the Times - and what they have written about the Patriots since December is irresponsible and mean, not to mention biased. It must be to sell papers ... but it burns me. I only buy the Times once a week now - on Saturday, for the crossword puzzle. Mike Florio is my frikkin hero - finally, a real journalist has written this about the Times. The Boston Herald, I can deal with that - you read that for Nostradamus’s predictions about the Bruins, or whatever. But people believe what’s in the Times - and what they have written about the Patriots since December is irresponsible and mean, not to mention biased. It must be to sell papers … but it burns me. I only buy the Times once a week now - on Saturday, for the crossword puzzle.

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]]> By: mikemboston http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27716 mikemboston Mon, 12 May 2008 00:04:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27716 hey Vandilay_Industries, you say "cheating will be their legacy". This story is a joke buddy, Florio is pointing out the obvious, everyone with a shred of common sense understands what is at work here. It's laughable if you think real NFL people and knowledgeable fans think this had anything to do with any of their SB wins. Just because you're part of a large legion of bidder, jaded and jealous nitwits doesn't mean that cheating will be even whispered 50 years from now when people are discussing this incredible dynasty. Just get over the fact that they have the best coach/qb combo in NFL history and move on, please! It's a simple life lesson guy, people are always trying to take down the king. hey Vandilay_Industries, you say “cheating will be their legacy”. This story is a joke buddy, Florio is pointing out the obvious, everyone with a shred of common sense understands what is at work here. It’s laughable if you think real NFL people and knowledgeable fans think this had anything to do with any of their SB wins. Just because you’re part of a large legion of bidder, jaded and jealous nitwits doesn’t mean that cheating will be even whispered 50 years from now when people are discussing this incredible dynasty. Just get over the fact that they have the best coach/qb combo in NFL history and move on, please!

It’s a simple life lesson guy, people are always trying to take down the king.

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]]> By: bogart http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27711 bogart Sun, 11 May 2008 23:39:36 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27711 Just to humor myself, I typed "tim donaghy nba scandal" into google. I got 64,800 hits. Next, I typed "patriots nfl scandal" into google. 375,000 hits. According this highly un-scientific study, taping defensive signals is over 5x more important of an issue for people than taking money from the mob and using your position as a referee to alter the final score. Alright, that did it ... my head just exploded. Just to humor myself, I typed “tim donaghy nba scandal” into google. I got 64,800 hits.

Next, I typed “patriots nfl scandal” into google. 375,000 hits.

According this highly un-scientific study, taping defensive signals is over 5x more important of an issue for people than taking money from the mob and using your position as a referee to alter the final score. Alright, that did it … my head just exploded.

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]]> By: Rob0769 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27708 Rob0769 Sun, 11 May 2008 23:18:49 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27708 Lawdog, Yeah, because going 18-1, being the only team with 16-0 regular season, and had the most prolific offense in NFL history is no indication that they can win without defensive signals. I can't think of anything being more indictment of the Patriots needing those defensive signals than breaking the scoring, passing, and receiving TD records after they turned over the tapes to Goodell. I think that it is obvious that since the Pats offense was arguable the best offense of all time and Brady has his best year by about 1,000 miles without the videos of the defensive signals that it is obvious that the Pats offense can't function without using the defensive signals. I don't know where Patriots haters get these ideas. Lawdog,

Yeah, because going 18-1, being the only team with 16-0 regular season, and had the most prolific offense in NFL history is no indication that they can win without defensive signals. I can’t think of anything being more indictment of the Patriots needing those defensive signals than breaking the scoring, passing, and receiving TD records after they turned over the tapes to Goodell.

I think that it is obvious that since the Pats offense was arguable the best offense of all time and Brady has his best year by about 1,000 miles without the videos of the defensive signals that it is obvious that the Pats offense can’t function without using the defensive signals.

I don’t know where Patriots haters get these ideas.

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]]> By: bogart http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27704 bogart Sun, 11 May 2008 23:13:03 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27704 If you truly believe the only reason the Patriots have been the most successful team in the league since 2001 is because of a few video tapes, you clearly know nothing about football. You would think going 18-1 after this story broke, without the video tapes, would convince people of that. Maybe these are the same people who don't believe dinosaurs ever existed. They broke the rules, they paid their price, get over it. I hate to break it to you, but they're still better than your team (unless you're a Giants fan.) How this Patriots taping fiasco is getting more press and causing more fan uproar than a F*#^ING NBA REFEREE TAKING MONEY FROM THE MAFIA TO SHAVE POINTS is so beyond comprehension that I need to go lie down now, just to prevent my head from exploding. If you truly believe the only reason the Patriots have been the most successful team in the league since 2001 is because of a few video tapes, you clearly know nothing about football. You would think going 18-1 after this story broke, without the video tapes, would convince people of that. Maybe these are the same people who don’t believe dinosaurs ever existed. They broke the rules, they paid their price, get over it. I hate to break it to you, but they’re still better than your team (unless you’re a Giants fan.)

How this Patriots taping fiasco is getting more press and causing more fan uproar than a F*#^ING NBA REFEREE TAKING MONEY FROM THE MAFIA TO SHAVE POINTS is so beyond comprehension that I need to go lie down now, just to prevent my head from exploding.

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]]> By: Rob0769 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27702 Rob0769 Sun, 11 May 2008 23:07:29 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27702 Wrathchild, If you support biased journalism even if you agree with the bias, I am sorry for you. I am sickened by the state of journalism today. I do not want the new media to tell me the story I want to hear, I want them to tell the truth. I am not naive to expect unbiased the truth out of the media. But if you chear on this biasness, I really feel sorry for you. Wrathchild,

If you support biased journalism even if you agree with the bias, I am sorry for you. I am sickened by the state of journalism today. I do not want the new media to tell me the story I want to hear, I want them to tell the truth.

I am not naive to expect unbiased the truth out of the media. But if you chear on this biasness, I really feel sorry for you.

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]]> By: Lawdog http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27701 Lawdog Sun, 11 May 2008 22:57:35 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27701 With due respect, the PFTers have been far more pro-Pats than neg-Pats. In some regards, that is to be expected. They have a record, owner, front office, coach and staff, and a roster of players that is one of the if not the best in the league, and has been since the implementation of the cap. But, since Spygate broke, the folks at PFT have been far more shrugs and sarcasm than realistic about the nature, extent and impact of what the Pats have done. Here is a real short synopsis: they won rings with film and did not without - and did so when they were dogs and lost when they were heavily favored. Chirp all you want about everyone does it, the film was not that helpful, the league came down hard enough, blah, blah, blan. They better win one soon, or this will resonate like the state of our economy in an election year. With due respect, the PFTers have been far more pro-Pats than neg-Pats. In some regards, that is to be expected. They have a record, owner, front office, coach and staff, and a roster of players that is one of the if not the best in the league, and has been since the implementation of the cap. But, since Spygate broke, the folks at PFT have been far more shrugs and sarcasm than realistic about the nature, extent and impact of what the Pats have done. Here is a real short synopsis: they won rings with film and did not without - and did so when they were dogs and lost when they were heavily favored. Chirp all you want about everyone does it, the film was not that helpful, the league came down hard enough, blah, blah, blan. They better win one soon, or this will resonate like the state of our economy in an election year.

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]]> By: bonecity7 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27699 bonecity7 Sun, 11 May 2008 22:55:57 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27699 Mike Massey, You're a buffoon!! Mike Massey,

You’re a buffoon!!

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]]> By: Kotite http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27696 Kotite Sun, 11 May 2008 22:46:45 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27696 It needs to be reiterated that ALL teams don't cheat. Holmgren and Dungy each made speeches to this effect when the allegations first surfaced. The Pats did something that the Commish obviously felt warranted penalties of $750K in fines and a sacrificed 1st round pick. The Walsh debacle seems to vindicate the Pats in some circles, but the fact is they have been cheating for years and got caught. Saying "everyone does it" is erroneous and flimsy. Yeah, they are being targeted and dragged through the dirt, but they kinda deserve it, no? It needs to be reiterated that ALL teams don’t cheat. Holmgren and Dungy each made speeches to this effect when the allegations first surfaced. The Pats did something that the Commish obviously felt warranted penalties of $750K in fines and a sacrificed 1st round pick. The Walsh debacle seems to vindicate the Pats in some circles, but the fact is they have been cheating for years and got caught. Saying “everyone does it” is erroneous and flimsy. Yeah, they are being targeted and dragged through the dirt, but they kinda deserve it, no?

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]]> By: Wrathchild http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27691 Wrathchild Sun, 11 May 2008 22:33:01 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27691 I support anyone with an anti-Pats agenda, so more power to the Times. They cheated three teams of a Superbowl because of cheating and still got a top-10 pick in the draft this year - they shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the first round, trade or not. They play dirty as hell (Losman to the knee, Jacobs to the eye) and get little or no punishment. Isn't it logical they are going to get hated on? I support anyone with an anti-Pats agenda, so more power to the Times. They cheated three teams of a Superbowl because of cheating and still got a top-10 pick in the draft this year - they shouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near the first round, trade or not.

They play dirty as hell (Losman to the knee, Jacobs to the eye) and get little or no punishment. Isn’t it logical they are going to get hated on?

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]]> By: mrmagoo http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27688 mrmagoo Sun, 11 May 2008 22:24:32 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/11/times-has-anti-pats-agenda/#comment-27688 3-0 in the Super Bowl when taping signals and 0-1 when not. But I'm sure they gained no advantage. 3-0 in the Super Bowl when taping signals and 0-1 when not. But I’m sure they gained no advantage.

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