More and more media outlets are locking onto the report that the New England Patriots’ habit of videotaping defensive coaching signals also included at least one instance of videotaping of offensive coaching signals.
Bob Glauber of Newsday is the most recent writer to “confirm” this practice, pointing to a game between the Pats and the Dolphins from 2001.
But what of the reality that offensive coaching signals became unnecessary once the quarterbacks were equipped with radio receivers in their helmets? Why isn’t the media addressing this fairly significant distinction between NFL offenses and NFL defenses?
We’re not saying that the tapes Walsh turned over don’t include evidence of the taping of offensive coaching signals. But given that there was (and is) no reason for teams to use offensive coaching signals, there is (and was) no reason to believe that a tape of offensive coaching signals exists. And our point is that someone in the media should at least mention the fact that, on the surface, the notion that offensive signals were videotaped seems odd, given the use of the radio receivers.
But maybe there are folks in the press who are disappointed by the fact that, like Al Capone’s vault 22 years ago, the videotapes turned over by Matt Walsh don’t contain anything good — like, for example, images of the Rams’ walk-through practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI. And maybe those same folks hope to fill that void by rushing to judgment on something that technically is beyond the scope of the activities for which the Pats previously have been punished.
So maybe that’s why some reporters aren’t letting concepts like, you know, reality and common sense get in the way on this one.
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May 10th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
People don’t want facts. Facts complicate things. That’s why we’re stuck in Iraq…cuz ignoring facts and rushing to judgment is so much easier. Jimmy Johnson has stated on the record that the Chiefs and Dolphins also taped signals. And the practice was in place when he joined the teams. Which means Don Shula taped signals. And Shula had the balls to question the Patriots record. What a friggen hypocrite.
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May 10th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Mr Florio,
Would someone please get the NFL to answer this question: Did the Patriots get punished for taping in the wrong location OR for taping signals. If the taping was only in the wrong location (Which I believe to be true) then how can they be accused of cheating when it would be legal to have the tapes of signals from a different location?
Thank you.
Dan
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May 10th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
The Palm Beach Post specifically reported on what’s involved in “stealing” offensive signals. According to former Dolphins fullback Rob Konrad:
“I’ve never really thought signals from an offensive sideline would be that big of a deal. Most offenses, from a logistical standpoint, are called through the quarterback’s helmet, so there really wouldn’t be a way to pick up signals. Most of the hand signals from the sideline would be what personnel to use, like two tight ends, a fullback, three wide receivers. The only advantage anyone would gain from those signals is five seconds’ more time to be able to call a particular defense.”
So while not great, there is some small advantage to be gained by studying the hand signals from the sidelines. The biggest advantage is in knowing the signals, even if limited, from a division rival so you can use that few seconds to your advantage during a later game–which is probably why the Dolphins were involved.
And the biggest issue here, which seems to be ignored in your post, is that it’s cheating. It doesn’t matter whether the results are effective or not; it’s still cheating.
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May 10th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Everyone is saying that the phone systems go dead in Foxboro. The only tape showing offense, the Dolphin game on Oct 7, 2001, was played in Miami. I bet the phones weren’t working at all in Foxboro that day.
Also, the Patriots played approx 120 games from 2000 thru 2006. There’s been 14 tapes. Looks like they put a lot of effort into their video taping.
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May 10th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Videotaping signals was and is legal and condoned by the NFL - even today.
Until 2006, only taping for use on that gameday was prohibited. After 2006 it was made clear that any on field taping was prohibited. So if the Patriots or any other team taped signals for later review, pre-2006 from the field, there was nothing wrong with that.
Today, the NFL still encourages teams to videotape and steal signals by making clear in their current rule, that it is the LOCATION of the taping that they are most concerned about. They do not want anyone from the team having access to that tape on game day - but only on game day.
Read the rules yourselves:
Page 105 of the Game Operations manual: “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.” It later says: “All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.”
A memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: “Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.”
So there you have it straight from the NFL - just like they condone signal stealing (because they know they can’t stop it) they also condone videotapings of signals (because they know they can’t stop it, unless they review every video that every team takes from the stands).
The reported editing of the Patriots video proves it wasn’t done on the fly during the game for game day use - it was edited with multiple angles for use later on… i.e., perfectly legal.
So before anyone goes and acts “aghast” about videotaping signals, they should read the manual and see that only the location of the taping is regulated by the NFL - not the content, and you can be sure every other team is doing the same thing.
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May 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I don’t think it’s relevant that the Patriots shouldn’t have needed to tape offensive signals since the advent of the QB helmet mic. All that is relevant is that they were taping the other team’s activities.
The rules are clear, no taping the other team, offense, defense, special teams or in the shower…can’t do it.
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May 10th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Ca_Viking, a Cheerleader, says: “The reason this is gathering steam is the issue of LYING.The Patriots made this problem an everyday policy knowing it was wrong AND even after being warned.”
So Ca_Viking - let’s see if you can figure out on your own what the problem is with your assertion here.
The Patriots were “warned” in 2006 along with everyone else, when the leagued strengthened the rule… and yet they continued this practice in 2002, after being warned in 2006, as evidenced by the latest tapes.
Belichick’s good, but not so good that he had a time machine in 2002 to travel forward to 2006 to learn that the leagued had changed their rrule, only to travel back to 2002 to maliciously violate the 2006 rule.
But that’s pretty much what some members of the media would like you to believe.
Meanwhile, the Patriots and all other teams likely continue to videotape signal calling from the stands today, in accordance with the NFL rule which condones both signal stealing and videotaping of signals, just so long as its in the “right” location and not used for that particular game.
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May 10th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
JoeSixPack,”The Patriots were “warned” in 2006 along with everyone else, when the leagued strengthened the rule… and yet they continued this practice in 2002, after being warned in 2006, as evidenced by the latest tapes.”
They knew it was cheating and a competitive advantage all along. The fact that they were willing to continue after the warning shows either a complette lack of respect for the warning, and or the competitive advantage they got from it was so great it was worth risking.
The NFL did not even catch them doing it, the Jets told on them. Then the NFL tried to cover it all up.
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May 10th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
One more relevant matter related to this issue.
What if the Dolphins had taped the Patriots offensive signals? Do you think everyone - including the Commisisoner’s office - would be as upset? Or do you think there’s a double standard at work here?
Well you don’t have to imagine: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2696227
“…players strongly hinted that the tapes were critical in preparing for the game and provided the Dolphins inside information about New England’s offensive audible system.
“I’ve never seen [Brady] so flustered,” middle linebacker Zach Thomas said.
The league’s response? Pretty much a stifled yawn, since there is no rule prohibiting such film study.
“Reaction around the league office was, ‘That’s football,’ ” AFC spokesman Steve Alic said.
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May 10th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
From my understanding, the Pats’ sanction was based in large part on what Belichick told the commissioner. If this current issue is in line with what he told Goodell, then no problem…move on (or move out). However, if this was not something that was initially fessed up to, then I think additional sanction is appropriate.
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May 10th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
If Belichick were more forthcoming with the media none of this would be an issue. He is being penalized, along with all of NE for a personality flaw. Where was the media when Saint Tony and Jeff Fisher admittedly(by their own players) conspired to essentially throw a game that significantly impacted the playoffs. Saint Tony let Fisher know that he would not call a timeout therefore the Titans needn’t punt and there went any hope for the Cleveland Browns. Integrity of the game-none whatsoever! If Belichick had done this, the media would have opened the door to the elevator of hell and pushed him in! One of the only outlets to even report on this collusion was PFT and even you guys let it ride!
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May 10th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Is there any source to find the statistics on radio communication failing? Did it happen more often with Beli-you-know-who’s teams than others, or is that just a myth? In 2001, NE lost at Miami 30-10 in week 5, but rebounded to take a close win in NE 20-13 in week 16. If NE taped/learned Miami’s signals in the first game, it would be a nice advantage to know ahead of time that the radios would “fail” in the second game. Miami, caught off guard, would be pressed into exclusively using its hand signals, likely not changed very often because of the reliance on radios.
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May 10th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Folks in the press who are disappointed in what Walsh turned over? Shouldn’t you at profootballtalk include yourselves in that statement?
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May 10th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Pats fans love to claim that they don’t care about this, that it doesn’t tarnish the team’s accomplishments. They sure do spend lots of time explaining away something they claim not to care about.
You want to know the real reason why this is such a big story? It’s because the Pats have so many close victories during the time of their so called dynasty. That’s what they’re known for, winning close games at the end.
That means that the advantage provided by taping other teams may in fact be the difference between the Pats being 3 time champs and the Pats having zero championships. The public knows how slim each Pats Super Bowl victory was, and these tapes could have provided that slim difference.
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May 10th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Dont Taze Me Bro,
How does beating the Panthers by 3 points have anything to do with Spygate? The only time the Patriots under Belichick played the Panthers, George Seifert was the head coach.
In the Super Bowl vs. the Rams, the Pats scored 10 offensive points. They won that game on defense, not offense. They won it by being physical with the WRs and hitting Marshall Faulk on every down whether he was going for the ball or not. Again, how does stealing defensive signals make that much of a difference.
Against the Eagles, the Patriots went to a lot of screen passes to neutralize a blitzing defense. That is football 101. Also, stealing signals did not make McNabb look like he was moving in slow motion because he was exhausted or send Todd Pinkston to the lockerroom for an IV for the same reason.
People can try to overanalyze this as much as they like, but to say the Pats would have zero Championships without filming is a falicy. For all we know, one or all three of their Super Bowl competitors videotaped the Pats defensive signals in an earlier meeting. It is generally accepted among people who know in the league the Pats weren’t the only ones videotaping signals at least prior to the 2006 memo.
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May 11th, 2008 at 1:47 am
I didn’t say they would have zero, i said they may have zero. We’ll never know how much the tapes helped. The Pats had lots of close games not just in the Super Bowl but in the playoffs as well over that time.
In 2001, they played the Rams in the regular season and lost, then they beat them by 3 in the Super Bowl. It’s not unreasonable to think tapes of the Rams made the difference.
In 2003, they only beat the Titans by 3 in the playoffs. They played the Titans in the regular season that year. Maybe tapes of that regular season game provided the 3 point win in the playoffs?
In 2004, the Steelers destroyed the Pats in the regular season, then in the playoffs, the Pats seemed much better prepared. They also got a playoff rematch with the Colts. Were the tapes the difference in those games? Maybe, maybe not.
It’s great how Pats fans say it’s no real advantage.
You know who thinks taping the games gives the Pats an advantage. Bill Freaking Belichick, that’s who. Obviously he thinks it provides an advantage because he sure put a lot of work into it. Even after the league specifically forbid the taping, Belichick still kept doing it, so obviously he feels it is worth not just the time and effort, but the risk of being caught.
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May 11th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Tapes are not illegal. Stealing signals is not illegal. Videotaping FROM THE SIDELINES is illegal. Try to remember that please.
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May 11th, 2008 at 11:15 am
I’m not so sure that O signals being stolen is that important as the QB has the ability to change stuff before the play happens.
My conceern is,: Is the NFL being honest? My questioning comes from the immediate destrustion of tapes. What is the NFL trying to cover up is my question.
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May 11th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Listen, you are all forgetting one other aspect of “taping” - Taping constitutes 2 things - Video (hand signals, etc) and Audio (audibles, etc). The use of AUDIO TAPING AUDIBLES during a game and breaking down those audible while the game is still going by matching what the offensive plays are is a HUGE ADVANTAGE during the course of a game. Do not forget, Miami has always given NE fits and tend to play them better than any other team (even when they are crappy!).
Although the commish did punish for video taping DEFENSIVE AND OFFENSIVE signals, did they punish them for taping audibles, etc, if that is indeed what we are talking about. If all we are talking about is the Taping of Offensive Sets (The big white cards with black letters most teams use to call out which personel are needed on the field) then this may have been covered under the original punishment, even if not elaborated on.
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