As talk heats up around the NFL that the New England Patriots could face additional sanctions for taping opponents’ offensive signals, two offensive players on the team that was taped are downplaying the significance of those signals.
“I’ve never really thought signals from an offensive sideline would be that big of a deal,” said Rob Konrad, the starting fullback on the 2001 Miami Dolphins.
Former Patriots employee Matt Walsh reportedly gave the league office a tape of the 2001 Dolphins’ offensive signals, prompting speculation that taping offensive signals could be viewed as a separate offense from taping defensive signals, which the Patriots were caught doing during their Week 1 game against the Jets last year.
“Most offenses, from a logistical standpoint, are called through the quarterback’s helmet. So there really wouldn’t be a way to pick up signals. Most of the hand signals from the sideline would be what personnel to use, like two tight ends, a fullback, three wide receivers,” Konrad tells Tim Graham of the Palm Beach Post.
How big an advantage is knowing what personnel package the opposing offense was going to use before that personnel took the field? Says Konrad, “The only advantage anyone would gain from those signals is five seconds’ more time to be able to call a particular defense.”
But while Konrad says he doesn’t think the advantage gained by the Patriots is a big one, he still isn’t happy about it, telling the paper, “I’m just disappointed at the individuals who were involved because it tarnished the game a little bit.”
Added Oronde Gadsden, another player on that 2001 Dolphins offense, “Obviously they had an unfair advantage, but the better team won that day.”
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May 10th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
you people are getting like everyone else running withh nothing
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May 10th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
What if they knew the other team’s audibles though? They could show them a look theat would force them to change whatever the helmet coach told them and use a hand or verbal signal the Pats have filmed and decoded.
There is no doubt that they could have done something to help the defense also if it was working on offense, why not?
I don’t like how the NFL and most media they directly controll are suppressing and spinning the issue, but basically they cheated for a while and got away with it, but in doing so have tarnished evryting they accomlplished.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 10th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
For an interview with Jimmy Johnson…
Q: Did you ever steal signals?
JJ: Oh in a heartbeat, yeah. Yes I did.
Q: Via video, Jimmy? Or no?
JJ: Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you’re going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.
Q: But did you do it by taping the signal caller?
JJ: Yeah.
Q: Oh you did.
JJ: That’s what I’m saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimer’s scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that’s how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.
Q: Where’d you put your guy who was videotaping? Where was he?
JJ: My guy was up with my camera crew in the press box. So you’d just put an extra camera up with your camera crew in the press box who zoomed in on the signal callers. That’s the best way to do it, but anyway you can’t always do that because the press box camera crew might be on the same side as the opposing team. If they’re on the same side as the opposing team that’s when you need to do it from the sideline.
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May 10th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
The Dolphins LEGALLY obtained tape of Tom Brady’s audibles and calls at the line of scrimmage before the Patriots went to Miami. Miami won 21-0 that day. Miami admitted they obtained the information. The League said that this was legal.
But what the Patriots have is illegal?
Please help a Pats fan out here. Seems like a double standard to me.
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May 10th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
A reasonable, measured reaction. Very nice.
Now if only we can put this nonsense to rest before the season starts, that would be something.
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May 10th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
why are you surprised Dan? stealing signals isn’t illegal, only if you tape them. the league likes stealing, just not cameras. so using Brady audible is ok, just not visual of it.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 10th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Dynasties don’t lose Super Bowls…
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May 10th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Does anyone really think anyone could learn anything from watching a Dolphins offense? Look for signs of Patriot players giggling in disbelief in the 2001 game.
I’ve been watching the Dolphins for 20+ years and there’s been nothing worth watching on offense since Marino hung his cleats up. The Patriots lost a 1st round pick- let’s move on.
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May 10th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Apparently stating that the Patriots tarnished the game and had an unfair advantage qualifies as downplaying the incident.
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May 10th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Just like with the defensive signals, those tapes likely wouldn’t
help in that game, unless they could turn things around that quickly to adjust at halftime. More likely, they’d be valuable the second time you played that same team- like a division opponent.
In 2001, NE lost at Miami 30-10 in week 5. Is that the game that the offensive signals are from? Because in week 16, NE won a “crucial” game against the visiting Dolphins at home, 20-13. THAT’s when any cheating that happened in the first game would pay off. Just because there was a big swing between the earlier loss and the close win at home against the Dolphins doesn’t mean they were cheating. And IF the headsets “failed” during that second game, making both teams use hand signals all the time, that coincidence wouldn’t prove anything either. But the more such “coincidences” are out there, the more they smell like cheaters.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 10th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Henry,
Someone else had taped the audio and video of the Patriots signals. This was LEGAL. So if the Patriots hired someone else to tape the signals that would be legal?
I still dont get the logic behind the rule.
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May 10th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Jeremiah W
All 32 teams have video access of the QB’s hand signals from regular game tape. I haven’t heard anyone complain that Peyton Manning gives away too much info from all his hand flapping. If it where so easy to decode, then Manning would be the wrost QB in the league. The rest is old news. Hand signals are just that. They still have to be DECODED. With the ever changing game plans, the signals would be ever changing as well. YAWN… seems futile to go on.
Of coarse some of the “real media” will grasp for straws. The media members that have already condemned the Patriots will not want to be proved w…wr…wro…incorrect. And there is a vast audience that will always be there with pitch forks in hand ready to listen.
Move along pepole. Nothing more to see here.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 10th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
The rest of the Jimmy Johnson article that’s always left out:
Q: Jimmy don’t you think using contraptions like that goes against the spirit of football?
JJ: Well that’s why the league put in that you can’t use any electronic equipment, during the game, locker room, press box, sideline, this type of thing. They ruled against it and again that’s why Bill Belichick was wrong.
Q: How much of an advantage would it give them?
JJ: Well you know Bradshaw and I had a talk back and forth on this. I did it a few times and then I stopped doing it because I didn’t think we got much out of it to be honest with you. But games are so close… If it gives you one single play in the ballgame it might be the difference. But again, he was wrong for doing it after the memorandum was sent out by the league, because the league knew that other teams were doing it. And so… it was a commonplace thing though.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 10th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Don’t other team’s helmet audio-receivers always break when they are in New England. That would make videotaping the back up hand signals pretty useful.
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Rating: 4 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 10th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
So THIS is why we went 1-15 this year. i knew it was something fishy! I mean, c’mon how could you really believe that all those injuries, terrible QB and line play, uncountable 3-point-loss games, and awful, awful coaching was legit? It’s all so clear now, they were just intricate acts designed to conceal the true nature as to why we lost so much, they knew the routes Oronde Gadsden was going to run! Good thing they didn’t have any tape on Camarillo to give to the Ravens…
cough. I’m more concerned about fixing our heinously playing team right now that knowing what tape someone has of our playbook that we were using 4 coaches ago. Speaking of which, maybe Bill B. just had a mancrush on Wannstache, and wanting home viewing video of him so that he could watch him whenever he wanted. Only 2 times a season wasn’t good enough?
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May 10th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Some good thoughts in the comments here, but honestly I don’t think anyone reads comments on this site except those who also contribute to them.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 10th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
talk isn’t heating up around the NFL, it is heating up around idiots in the media who actually thought Matt Walsh had some credibility and were waiting for the smoking gun piece of evidence to convict the Patriots. Now they are all left with nothing, and can’t just write that unlike so many other people who have been caught in the past doing something wrong (from Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton to Palmeiro, Clemens, Bonds), the Patriots broke a rule, were caught, and were open and honest about everything. This should have allowed them to move on with their lives - instead the media vultures grabbed a hold of Matt Walsh - and now you still can’t let go. THIS STORY IS OVER. OVER. Patriots were punished. Time for everyone to get a life and move on to something else.
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Rating: 2.35 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 10th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
How can this be a problem?
The NFL encourages teams to tape audio and video and use it to gain an advantage - just not for the SAME game in which the tapes are made.
They’ve been very clear about this, even AFTER the September 2006 “memo”. When the Dolphins were boasting that they used audio tapes of Brady’s playcalling to give themselves an advantage, the NFL stated that they did nothing wrong.
“…players strongly hinted that the tapes were critical in preparing for the game and provided the Dolphins inside information about New England’s offensive audible system. “I’ve never seen [Brady] so flustered,” middle linebacker Zach Thomas said.
The league’s response? Pretty much a stifled yawn, since there is no rule prohibiting such film study.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2696227
So aside from the fact that the league had no interest in finding out where or how the Dolphins obtained their tapes as late as 2006 - but if the Patriots violated a 2006 rule in 2001, they should be penalized for that?
What kind of “message” is that for Goodell to send?
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May 10th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
pennphinfan, what are you talking about? Nobody is saying Miami went 1-15 this year because of Patriots tapes? Gadsen hasn’t been a Dolphin in years? Are you sure your a Fin fan because your Miami knowledge is way off.
The submitted tapes refer to the 2001 season, you know, when Miami was competitive. Your rant there seems mixed up in time a bit.
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May 10th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
WOW! AmAZiNG!
The writers went out of the way to track down Conrad and Gadsden. Now thats some reporting!
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May 10th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Well I am not sure what the Pats had confessed to Goodell but it was reported that they confessed everything. If thats the case the punishment was severed. If these video tapings is information that they left out than they should be punished again. I am as loyal as a Dolphin fan as there can be and I really could care less if the Pats do get slammed again because its the past and no one can change that and the biggest punishment for the Pats is instead of going down and one of the greatest dynasties in football history they will always be remembered as the team who cheated.
One note to Dan1919 the video that Miami had viewed was video of a televised game. They realized that if they turned the volume up they would be able to hear the audible that Tom Brady was calling. They did not purposely go out and tape the Pats in an attempt to find out their signals. Thats the difference between the Miami incident and ALL of the Pats incidents. With the Pats there was intent and with Miami there was none.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 10th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
The Patriots did what they did and they paid the price. I hope all the anti-Patriot fans have had a good time piling on. If you can’t beat them on the field, take your shots from behind a keyboard. Inevitably, some other team will do something against the rules–surely the NFL is not made up of 31 Saints and 1 Sinner. It is then that we all will find out how committed to the Game’s integrity Mr. Goodell is. I, for one, will be looking forward to seeing some other team face the sanctions and scorn the Patriots have had to face. Ths precendent has been set.
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May 11th, 2008 at 2:21 am
ummm Despacio, I certainly hope you are also being sarcastic, as I was
I’ll be honest, you probably caught my blatant sarcasm and are just giving it back, but with some of the people that believe crazy things, it scares me that i would almost believe you were being serious (as i’m sure people were actually concerned that I may have been serious) cheers
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May 11th, 2008 at 3:04 am
KY, Dynasty rules changed after the salary cap. 3 in 4 years = Dynasty.
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May 11th, 2008 at 4:44 am
16-0 last year
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