Comments on: A PLAN FOR PLUCKING PICKS WHEN PLAYERS MISBEHAVE http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:07:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: jeezy http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27392 jeezy Sat, 10 May 2008 19:01:35 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27392 the players should be fined and donate their salary to their victims and local charities, pacman needs to hookup tommy urbanski, tommy urbanski didnt deserve any of this mess, help mr.urbanski and other victims, innocent citizens do not deserve the wrath and evil of spoiled nfl players, i really feel bad for people that have to endure the violence and recklessness of spoiled nfl players. the players should be fined and donate their salary to their victims and local charities, pacman needs to hookup tommy urbanski, tommy urbanski didnt deserve any of this mess, help mr.urbanski and other victims, innocent citizens do not deserve the wrath and evil of spoiled nfl players, i really feel bad for people that have to endure the violence and recklessness of spoiled nfl players.

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]]> By: Kidekk http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27326 Kidekk Sat, 10 May 2008 15:57:34 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27326 You know what, I'm not surprised by the article that Florio wrote. It just goes to show how in this country nobody is willing to take responsibility for their own actions: there always has to be someone else to blame. You know what, I’m not surprised by the article that Florio wrote. It just goes to show how in this country nobody is willing to take responsibility for their own actions: there always has to be someone else to blame.

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]]> By: rikolas http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27309 rikolas Sat, 10 May 2008 15:08:28 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27309 I agree! This is ridiculous. As long as you have money, no fine will be large enough to dissuade your behavior. Maybe Mike Vick gets it now? But, how often does that happen? Rarely! Strip the team, keep the turds out of the league. Now, guys in college will know that they may not even be drafted if they screw up. I think this will help on many levels! I agree! This is ridiculous. As long as you have money, no fine will be large enough to dissuade your behavior. Maybe Mike Vick gets it now? But, how often does that happen? Rarely! Strip the team, keep the turds out of the league. Now, guys in college will know that they may not even be drafted if they screw up.

I think this will help on many levels!

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]]> By: Shaun Lowrie http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27298 Shaun Lowrie Sat, 10 May 2008 14:47:35 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27298 I'm not sure why the team needs punishing? How have the Titans benefited from wasting a first-rounder on Pacman, losing him for a conditional pick, and paying him millions of dollars? Surely that in itself is a 'punishment'? 'The Bengals' only true penalties so far have been the constant public ridicule' - Mike Florio How have the Bengals benefited from signing players who have continually let them down? They haven't, in fact they are now arguably the worst team in their division. I'm pretty sure that it's no coincidence. The Bengals have played badly since they started drafting with this attitude, and there is a direct correllation between the amount of players with character issues and their demise. If they can't learn, then I think you'll find 31 other teams that are ok with that. I’m not sure why the team needs punishing? How have the Titans benefited from wasting a first-rounder on Pacman, losing him for a conditional pick, and paying him millions of dollars? Surely that in itself is a ‘punishment’?

‘The Bengals’ only true penalties so far have been the constant public ridicule’ - Mike Florio

How have the Bengals benefited from signing players who have continually let them down? They haven’t, in fact they are now arguably the worst team in their division. I’m pretty sure that it’s no coincidence. The Bengals have played badly since they started drafting with this attitude, and there is a direct correllation between the amount of players with character issues and their demise. If they can’t learn, then I think you’ll find 31 other teams that are ok with that.

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]]> By: Toad http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27293 Toad Sat, 10 May 2008 14:32:47 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27293 It is absolutely unbelievable that most of the posters here don't get the premise of this proposal. Bengals fans must have a collective IQ of 80 to whine about the Bengals being used as an example. Use the Chargers or the Colts; who cares? The premise is the same. If a team decides to employ someone who has already shown that he has a high degree of certainty to get into trouble, trouble that would embarass both the league and the team, there should be consequences to the team if they can't reasonably control said previous offender. Why should Dallas be allowed to beat up on the Titans with a player, that was rightfully released from the Titans for bad behavior, especially without standing some team risk if said offender commits another crime? It's certainly true that no team can foretell if a player will get into the type of trouble that embarasses the NFL, but if a player has a troubled history and the team hires the player while electing to ignore the player's past, they should do so at some risk to the team. It's really simple stuff. No team should be able to gain a competitive advantage by hiring a problem child without some degree of risk to the team...Bengals, Chargers, Patriots or whoever! If you're worried about where the lost picks go, distribute them to the teams that don't hire thugletes to win. Really simple; really on point! It is absolutely unbelievable that most of the posters here don’t get the premise of this proposal. Bengals fans must have a collective IQ of 80 to whine about the Bengals being used as an example. Use the Chargers or the Colts; who cares? The premise is the same.

If a team decides to employ someone who has already shown that he has a high degree of certainty to get into trouble, trouble that would embarass both the league and the team, there should be consequences to the team if they can’t reasonably control said previous offender. Why should Dallas be allowed to beat up on the Titans with a player, that was rightfully released from the Titans for bad behavior, especially without standing some team risk if said offender commits another crime?

It’s certainly true that no team can foretell if a player will get into the type of trouble that embarasses the NFL, but if a player has a troubled history and the team hires the player while electing to ignore the player’s past, they should do so at some risk to the team. It’s really simple stuff. No team should be able to gain a competitive advantage by hiring a problem child without some degree of risk to the team…Bengals, Chargers, Patriots or whoever!

If you’re worried about where the lost picks go, distribute them to the teams that don’t hire thugletes to win. Really simple; really on point!

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]]> By: Ditkas Cigar http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27290 Ditkas Cigar Sat, 10 May 2008 14:23:16 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27290 I think there's a whole lot of people here missing the point. This is about punishing teams that continue to draft and/or sign "turds" year after year. If a team is going to continue to bring thugs into the league there needs to be some type of consequence. While suspending a player is a consequence, it usually hurts the individual more than the team in most cases. The team does not have to pay the player and can sign a different player to take his place. Only when the player is a superstar (ala Vick or Pacman) does it truly hurt the team also. While I'm not sure that Florio's proposal is the right way to do accomplish it. I do agree that the teams need to start being held accountable for the players they bring into the league. I think there’s a whole lot of people here missing the point.

This is about punishing teams that continue to draft and/or sign “turds” year after year. If a team is going to continue to bring thugs into the league there needs to be some type of consequence.

While suspending a player is a consequence, it usually hurts the individual more than the team in most cases. The team does not have to pay the player and can sign a different player to take his place.

Only when the player is a superstar (ala Vick or Pacman) does it truly hurt the team also.

While I’m not sure that Florio’s proposal is the right way to do accomplish it. I do agree that the teams need to start being held accountable for the players they bring into the league.

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]]> By: ArmyGuy http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27286 ArmyGuy Sat, 10 May 2008 14:13:43 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27286 I'm a Bengals fan and just can't figure out the stupidity of these players. I'm talking NFL wide, not just the Bengals. Here's a chance of a lifetime that many would give anything to do and get paid the way they do and your telling me all they can do is get into trouble ?? Pathetic nothing more. That being said, the mass punishment thing will never work. If they say they can take draft picks from a team, then the team should have the ability to reinstate the "loyalty clause"... You can say all you want that a team should stay away from these types, but we all know that is not the case. If someone has talent, some team will be there to take a chance on them. PUNISH THE PLAYER and then allow the team to go back after the player legally after they have screwed themselves and the organization up. Amazing how even with all the outrage over this problem, we don't want to address that the player is RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS. This is like a woman who gets raped and then society blames it on her and the fact she wore a short skirt instead of the rapist. The woman represents the football organization and the rapist represents the player with issues. So lets punish the organization instead of the player. Ridiculous... Not quite the line of thought I would expect someone to come up with. That also being said, it will probably be implemented next season. Sad state we are living in... I’m a Bengals fan and just can’t figure out the stupidity of these players. I’m talking NFL wide, not just the Bengals. Here’s a chance of a lifetime that many would give anything to do and get paid the way they do and your telling me all they can do is get into trouble ?? Pathetic nothing more.

That being said, the mass punishment thing will never work. If they say they can take draft picks from a team, then the team should have the ability to reinstate the “loyalty clause”… You can say all you want that a team should stay away from these types, but we all know that is not the case. If someone has talent, some team will be there to take a chance on them.

PUNISH THE PLAYER and then allow the team to go back after the player legally after they have screwed themselves and the organization up. Amazing how even with all the outrage over this problem, we don’t want to address that the player is RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

This is like a woman who gets raped and then society blames it on her and the fact she wore a short skirt instead of the rapist. The woman represents the football organization and the rapist represents the player with issues. So lets punish the organization instead of the player. Ridiculous…

Not quite the line of thought I would expect someone to come up with. That also being said, it will probably be implemented next season. Sad state we are living in…

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]]> By: Shaun Lowrie http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27271 Shaun Lowrie Sat, 10 May 2008 12:36:54 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27271 You could argue that the Bengals have already suffered by taking guys with character issues by the way. If a team is judged on results, then the results of taking these guys have been atrocious. The Bengals were a playoff team in '05, possibly missing one or two players from making a serious run towards the Superbowl. The suspensions of Thurman and Henry took away two players that could be classed as difference-makers on that team. I would make the case that, in fact, teams have taken more notice of the Bengals plight and realised that while it's ok to take a chance on a kid, you don't stuff your locker room with them, because it will not work out long term. Plus remember the real loser here - the player. Sure we moan about how Adam Jones get's a 5th chance, but really, his name is now synonymous with being a complete failure. He has had to accept a contract that arguably does not reflect his talent because of his prior indiscretions. If he gets in any more trouble, he will have cut short his career and he will be on the street. With a lifestyle such as the one he has, would you put money on a guy like that surviving in civilian life for more than say, 2 years? I'll guarantee this: If Pacman is tossed out of the league in the next 18 months, ESPN will be writing the fluff piece on his death by 2012. And if we can't see past our moral high horse here, we will have overlooked the real tragedy of a life wasted. You could argue that the Bengals have already suffered by taking guys with character issues by the way.

If a team is judged on results, then the results of taking these guys have been atrocious. The Bengals were a playoff team in ‘05, possibly missing one or two players from making a serious run towards the Superbowl. The suspensions of Thurman and Henry took away two players that could be classed as difference-makers on that team.

I would make the case that, in fact, teams have taken more notice of the Bengals plight and realised that while it’s ok to take a chance on a kid, you don’t stuff your locker room with them, because it will not work out long term.

Plus remember the real loser here - the player. Sure we moan about how Adam Jones get’s a 5th chance, but really, his name is now synonymous with being a complete failure. He has had to accept a contract that arguably does not reflect his talent because of his prior indiscretions. If he gets in any more trouble, he will have cut short his career and he will be on the street. With a lifestyle such as the one he has, would you put money on a guy like that surviving in civilian life for more than say, 2 years?

I’ll guarantee this: If Pacman is tossed out of the league in the next 18 months, ESPN will be writing the fluff piece on his death by 2012.

And if we can’t see past our moral high horse here, we will have overlooked the real tragedy of a life wasted.

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]]> By: bolo http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27270 bolo Sat, 10 May 2008 12:35:54 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27270 Maybe added discipline should start at the college level. There has to be a way to rehab these players while they are young and impressionable. Once you are a grown man playing in the NFL, you should be the only one responsible for your actions. Teams should not be penalized for sighing a player with problems or that gets arrested after they are signed. Losing that player is punishment enough. They have already invested their time, their draft pick, and their money into him. That's enough. Maybe added discipline should start at the college level. There has to be a way to rehab these players while they are young and impressionable. Once you are a grown man playing in the NFL, you should be the only one responsible for your actions. Teams should not be penalized for sighing a player with problems or that gets arrested after they are signed. Losing that player is punishment enough. They have already invested their time, their draft pick, and their money into him. That’s enough.

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]]> By: mongo6901 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27268 mongo6901 Sat, 10 May 2008 12:03:08 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27268 Once again, you've failed to identify the root cause of the problem. This is not the team's responsibility. It's the players. Only the players can choose to act like responsible members of society, and that is where punishment needs to be assessed. If a player is convicted or pleads guilty or no-contest, he should be immediately suspended for a period of games (depending on severity). Put accountability on the people who use the bad judgement. This isn't that hard, folks. Once again, you’ve failed to identify the root cause of the problem.

This is not the team’s responsibility.

It’s the players.

Only the players can choose to act like responsible members of society, and that is where punishment needs to be assessed.

If a player is convicted or pleads guilty or no-contest, he should be immediately suspended for a period of games (depending on severity).

Put accountability on the people who use the bad judgement.

This isn’t that hard, folks.

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]]> By: SirSuperSouthern http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27267 SirSuperSouthern Sat, 10 May 2008 11:35:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27267 Look, if Marvin Harrison is gonna stack the Turd Watch count, owners shouldn't be held accountable for their players actions. Its just too unpredictable. Two years ago, who could've guessed Vick would be in prison? What if Rashard Mendenhall killed one of his armed attackers during his hold-up? Your pln is bogus, Florio, but you need the hits so its all good. Still love the site, but you're way off base with this one... Look, if Marvin Harrison is gonna stack the Turd Watch count, owners shouldn’t be held accountable for their players actions. Its just too unpredictable. Two years ago, who could’ve guessed Vick would be in prison? What if Rashard Mendenhall killed one of his armed attackers during his hold-up?

Your pln is bogus, Florio, but you need the hits so its all good. Still love the site, but you’re way off base with this one…

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]]> By: FloriosPhillyFan http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27260 FloriosPhillyFan Sat, 10 May 2008 11:01:01 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27260 Sounds like a good idea. Keep players in line. I really feel bad for the bengals and cowboys, though. Sounds like a good idea. Keep players in line. I really feel bad for the bengals and cowboys, though.

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]]> By: stevelikesthesteelers http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27252 stevelikesthesteelers Sat, 10 May 2008 07:40:17 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27252 If the bengals would just wear totally orange jerseys, a lot of there guys will feel more at home. Call Mike Brown if you're septic tank is full, he'll collect your turds for free. If the bengals would just wear totally orange jerseys, a lot of there guys will feel more at home.

Call Mike Brown if you’re septic tank is full, he’ll collect your turds for free.

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]]> By: SeanMartin http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27250 SeanMartin Sat, 10 May 2008 06:45:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27250 The point of this article, and I feel that basically everyone who commented on it missed it, is that a team should be penalized (POSSIBLY, not definitely, with (a) draft pick(s)) if they take in a guy with MULTIPLE arrests/suspensions/citations etc., and he goes at it again. Marvin Harrison, whomever named him in an earlier comment, is a poor example. Harrison does not have a history of breaking NFL rules, and the Colts would not be punished with Florio's proposal. If, for example, Jared Allen was busted AGAIN for DUI, then the Viqueens would be penalized. Okay, I agree, a team can't control a GROWN MAN, but they are hiring him AFTER interviewing him, aren't they? What business hires/signs someone in the dark? ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE A HISTORY WITH THE LAW?! It makes sense that a team who TAKES A CHANCE on a player with multiple mishaps in the past needs to be weary. And they should know, upon signing him, that he is now a face and member of that organization, and he represents the organization. Go ahead and rate this comment a 2.35/5 with 45 rating(s), I don't care. The point of this article, and I feel that basically everyone who commented on it missed it, is that a team should be penalized (POSSIBLY, not definitely, with (a) draft pick(s)) if they take in a guy with MULTIPLE arrests/suspensions/citations etc., and he goes at it again. Marvin Harrison, whomever named him in an earlier comment, is a poor example. Harrison does not have a history of breaking NFL rules, and the Colts would not be punished with Florio’s proposal. If, for example, Jared Allen was busted AGAIN for DUI, then the Viqueens would be penalized.
Okay, I agree, a team can’t control a GROWN MAN, but they are hiring him AFTER interviewing him, aren’t they? What business hires/signs someone in the dark? ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE A HISTORY WITH THE LAW?! It makes sense that a team who TAKES A CHANCE on a player with multiple mishaps in the past needs to be weary. And they should know, upon signing him, that he is now a face and member of that organization, and he represents the organization.

Go ahead and rate this comment a 2.35/5 with 45 rating(s), I don’t care.

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]]> By: Kidekk http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27245 Kidekk Sat, 10 May 2008 05:17:12 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27245 I love the website, Florio, but this is a little overzealous. Once again, these are grown men that we are talking about so the team cannot be held accountable for everything they do while they are not at work. Do you want the teams to hire chaperones for every player so that they don't get in trouble? And what does it matter if a player has a past transgression or doesn't shouldn't there be equal treatment when dealing with punishment? Roger Goddell has already taken liberties by taking the law into his own hands, literally, by doling out punishment when the player is not even convicted of anything, but seriously, let the law take care of the law side of things. The players should be responsible for their actions, not the teams, and the players face those consequences when the state hands out judgement. I hate to say it, but if it wasn't for the media bringing the issues to light, no one would care, and, quite frankly, nobody really does care aside from Roger Goddell. No matter what anyone says, even the corporate sponsors. If one pulls their sponsorship, there will be a hundred other corporations willing to hitch their wagon to the NFL. When the games are on, do you really think people care about what someone did off of the field other than to use it to taunt them? The NFL is still the most popular sport in the USA and it only continues to get more popular. This whole PC crusade that the entire world seems to be on is getting out of hand. These players are the best at what they do, and there have been a lot of professional athletes in the past who have had vices and were still revered. Look at Brett Favre: I'm sure while he was addicted to pain killers some laws were broken. I could go on forever about this, but I'm starting to think that this popularity that you are acquiring is starting to go to your head. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and while I respect yours, I just find it nonsensical and a bit over the top. People are not robots that you can just program to not do bad, and unless you want to imprison players when they are not on the field or designate areas where they are allowed to go or violate their rights, this will never be accomplished and players and owners will never agree to something like this. The skeptic in me thinks that you are just trying to drum up more business for your bretheren, you know, the scum of the earth :) I love the website, Florio, but this is a little overzealous. Once again, these are grown men that we are talking about so the team cannot be held accountable for everything they do while they are not at work. Do you want the teams to hire chaperones for every player so that they don’t get in trouble? And what does it matter if a player has a past transgression or doesn’t shouldn’t there be equal treatment when dealing with punishment? Roger Goddell has already taken liberties by taking the law into his own hands, literally, by doling out punishment when the player is not even convicted of anything, but seriously, let the law take care of the law side of things. The players should be responsible for their actions, not the teams, and the players face those consequences when the state hands out judgement. I hate to say it, but if it wasn’t for the media bringing the issues to light, no one would care, and, quite frankly, nobody really does care aside from Roger Goddell. No matter what anyone says, even the corporate sponsors. If one pulls their sponsorship, there will be a hundred other corporations willing to hitch their wagon to the NFL. When the games are on, do you really think people care about what someone did off of the field other than to use it to taunt them? The NFL is still the most popular sport in the USA and it only continues to get more popular. This whole PC crusade that the entire world seems to be on is getting out of hand. These players are the best at what they do, and there have been a lot of professional athletes in the past who have had vices and were still revered. Look at Brett Favre: I’m sure while he was addicted to pain killers some laws were broken. I could go on forever about this, but I’m starting to think that this popularity that you are acquiring is starting to go to your head. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and while I respect yours, I just find it nonsensical and a bit over the top. People are not robots that you can just program to not do bad, and unless you want to imprison players when they are not on the field or designate areas where they are allowed to go or violate their rights, this will never be accomplished and players and owners will never agree to something like this. The skeptic in me thinks that you are just trying to drum up more business for your bretheren, you know, the scum of the earth :)

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]]> By: marvismyhero http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27242 marvismyhero Sat, 10 May 2008 04:27:08 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27242 who cares if players misbehave? honestly? they pay their debt to society just like anybody else. why do sports fans think they get input in the personnel decisions of another company? because they buy tickets? if you don't like a product, then you boycott--just like any other product in the world--if the president/owner of coors got a DUI and you were that upset then you would boycott the product (or make it the official beer of the NFL) who cares if players misbehave? honestly? they pay their debt to society just like anybody else.
why do sports fans think they get input in the personnel decisions of another company? because they buy tickets? if you don’t like a product, then you boycott–just like any other product in the world–if the president/owner of coors got a DUI and you were that upset then you would boycott the product (or make it the official beer of the NFL)

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]]> By: 46and2 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27239 46and2 Sat, 10 May 2008 03:58:29 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27239 Florio, get off the crusade man. these are adults who make their own decisions with what to do with their time. it shouldnt be a football teams job to police players, it should be, you know, the police's job to police players. I love your legal analysis on most topics, you were by far the best read on the Vick case anywhere, but enough with the witch hunt. we get it already. i dont even need to click that link to know what's in there, its essentially the same soapbox you climb on everytime someone gets arrested. Florio,

get off the crusade man. these are adults who make their own decisions with what to do with their time. it shouldnt be a football teams job to police players, it should be, you know, the police’s job to police players.

I love your legal analysis on most topics, you were by far the best read on the Vick case anywhere, but enough with the witch hunt. we get it already. i dont even need to click that link to know what’s in there, its essentially the same soapbox you climb on everytime someone gets arrested.

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]]> By: ToZionGoesI http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27236 ToZionGoesI Sat, 10 May 2008 03:54:50 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27236 Isn't it obvious what the penalty should be? The round that the player was drafted in, if he fights the losing fight against the law, that is the round which that team will lose a pick. Atlanta, Tennessee would lose first rounders. The Broncos would have lost a 4th rounder for DT Marcus Thomas. Cincinnati would just cause a draft to be 31 picks per round. Isn’t it obvious what the penalty should be? The round that the player was drafted in, if he fights the losing fight against the law, that is the round which that team will lose a pick.

Atlanta, Tennessee would lose first rounders. The Broncos would have lost a 4th rounder for DT Marcus Thomas. Cincinnati would just cause a draft to be 31 picks per round.

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]]> By: MannyNH http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27235 MannyNH Sat, 10 May 2008 03:44:43 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27235 Yeah, I don't know Florio.. Why punish the team MORE, for having a problem player on their team.. Obviously, teams want good players who stay out of trouble, but its inevitable that some do get in trouble. And usually the team punishes the player or releases them. Everyone is one mistake away from getting in trouble and hurting the team. I think the NFL needs to keep the punishment centered on the player who causes the problems.. If that means lifetime bans or something along those lines, fine. You kind of sound like a lawyer on this issue... (no offense) Yeah, I don’t know Florio.. Why punish the team MORE, for having a problem player on their team.. Obviously, teams want good players who stay out of trouble, but its inevitable that some do get in trouble. And usually the team punishes the player or releases them. Everyone is one mistake away from getting in trouble and hurting the team. I think the NFL needs to keep the punishment centered on the player who causes the problems.. If that means lifetime bans or something along those lines, fine. You kind of sound like a lawyer on this issue… (no offense)

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]]> By: 33243324 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27231 33243324 Sat, 10 May 2008 03:20:17 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27231 Freddie and Timm! You two crazy guys! Maybe you should cut back on that reative KY Jelly . . . Freddie and Timm! You two crazy guys! Maybe you should cut back on that reative KY Jelly . . .

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]]> By: Treez http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27230 Treez Sat, 10 May 2008 03:18:31 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27230 Florio, If you get a DUI should SportingNews be punished? Florio, If you get a DUI should SportingNews be punished?

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]]> By: Treez http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27229 Treez Sat, 10 May 2008 03:17:35 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27229 You're suggesting that you have a better way to punish than the existing laws of the United States? Cascading punishment? Silly and bureaucratic. You’re suggesting that you have a better way to punish than the existing laws of the United States? Cascading punishment? Silly and bureaucratic.

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]]> By: Wanksta http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27227 Wanksta Sat, 10 May 2008 03:06:56 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27227 I think its not only a good idea but a great one. Look if these teams are gonna provide a means to an end. Meaning way too much money to play football and the notoriety that comes with it. Than yeah punish them too. If they cant control Henty from slapping Chucky Cheese and hes already been suspended for other incident and on top of that the team thought they should stick by him? Absolutely they should punish the organization too. Itll bring new meaning to the word investment. I think its not only a good idea but a great one. Look if these teams are gonna provide a means to an end. Meaning way too much money to play football and the notoriety that comes with it. Than yeah punish them too. If they cant control Henty from slapping Chucky Cheese and hes already been suspended for other incident and on top of that the team thought they should stick by him? Absolutely they should punish the organization too. Itll bring new meaning to the word investment.

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]]> By: 33243324 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27225 33243324 Sat, 10 May 2008 02:39:20 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27225 Typical Lawyer. Do lawyers like you adverise your services in the Morgantown, WV area during the late night and when Judge Judy/Jerry Springer are being broadcast like they do here in Baltimore (aka Little Beirut?) Typical Lawyer. Do lawyers like you adverise your services in the Morgantown, WV area during the late night and when Judge Judy/Jerry Springer are being broadcast like they do here in Baltimore (aka Little Beirut?)

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]]> By: bcmcknight77 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27221 bcmcknight77 Sat, 10 May 2008 02:17:34 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27221 To this, uhhh, guy: "Are you saying that ex-convicts don’t have a right to seek employment?" No. He's saying they are welcome to seek employment in Canada or the AFL if they can't hold themselves to a higher standard in an arena where it is a honor to play, not a right. "what happens when a player who has had no trouble with the law (i.e. Marvin Harrison) shoots someone in the hand, or worse kills someone, and the team gets docked a first round draft pick?" No, they can cut him, or lose a first round draft pick. "Even when employers in the regular private sector hire people, they cannot be sure that that person will not, given certain circumstance, commit a crime." You're absolutely right. But when they read police beat on Monday, and find out their employee spent the weekend in the tank, he isn't their employee by Tuesday. "It’s opportunistic, egotistical, and may in action violate the rights of citizens to seek employment." They are welcome to seek employment where convicts are welcome. The road near my house needs the trash picked up a little bit. And the CFL is still accepting NFL Rejects. Before you criticize Florio, you should think it through a bit more. If you owned your own company, would you employ someone who shot another human being? I sure wouldn't. I don't care if they are the best in the world at what they do. They are NOT ABOVE THE LAW. You break the law, you get fired. Not rocket science. If teams don't want to lose a pick, cut the cancer. Simple as that. To this, uhhh, guy:

“Are you saying that ex-convicts don’t have a right to seek employment?”

No. He’s saying they are welcome to seek employment in Canada or the AFL if they can’t hold themselves to a higher standard in an arena where it is a honor to play, not a right.

“what happens when a player who has had no trouble with the law (i.e. Marvin Harrison) shoots someone in the hand, or worse kills someone, and the team gets docked a first round draft pick?”

No, they can cut him, or lose a first round draft pick.

“Even when employers in the regular private sector hire people, they cannot be sure that that person will not, given certain circumstance, commit a crime.”

You’re absolutely right. But when they read police beat on Monday, and find out their employee spent the weekend in the tank, he isn’t their employee by Tuesday.

“It’s opportunistic, egotistical, and may in action violate the rights of citizens to seek employment.”

They are welcome to seek employment where convicts are welcome. The road near my house needs the trash picked up a little bit. And the CFL is still accepting NFL Rejects.

Before you criticize Florio, you should think it through a bit more. If you owned your own company, would you employ someone who shot another human being? I sure wouldn’t. I don’t care if they are the best in the world at what they do. They are NOT ABOVE THE LAW. You break the law, you get fired. Not rocket science.

If teams don’t want to lose a pick, cut the cancer. Simple as that.

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]]> By: Florioisadumb1 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27216 Florioisadumb1 Sat, 10 May 2008 02:00:07 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27216 another dumbass article from a media member who doesn't bother with research. Since Goodell arrived in april 2005, 3 teams, the Jaguars (12), Vikings (12), and Dolphins (11) have had more players arrested/cited than the Bengals (10). When has the national media ever reported a jaguar player getting arrested? The Bengals aren't without their past issues, but they are far from the only team with issues, and they aren't even the worst! The Arizona Cardinals are the only team who has not had a player in trouble since Goodell arrived. Every other team has at least 2, and 11 teams have atleast 5. another dumbass article from a media member who doesn’t bother with research. Since Goodell arrived in april 2005, 3 teams, the Jaguars (12), Vikings (12), and Dolphins (11) have had more players arrested/cited than the Bengals (10). When has the national media ever reported a jaguar player getting arrested?

The Bengals aren’t without their past issues, but they are far from the only team with issues, and they aren’t even the worst! The Arizona Cardinals are the only team who has not had a player in trouble since Goodell arrived. Every other team has at least 2, and 11 teams have atleast 5.

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]]> By: Geronimo http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27214 Geronimo Sat, 10 May 2008 01:54:09 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27214 Florio wrote,"So the only way to get teams to avoid players with a history of legal problems -- or, even better, help the player change his unlawful ways -- is to strip the team of draft picks." Let me get this straight, Pac-Man will all of a sudden become a model citizen in a bar filled with poles and naked beauties because his team might lose a fifth round pick? Chris Henry won't don his jersey on and wave a gun at a crowd of people because it could cost his Bengals a sixth round pick? I will concede that your system may discourage teams from drafting such players, but there is no way it will "help the player change his unlawful ways." That's completely laughable. Do you honestly believe that? I'm a regular reader of PFT, and a Bengal fan....which is problably the exception, rather than the rule, over there. It's an informative and an enjoyable site, even though, seemingly, not a day goes by when you're not incessantly beating the character drum with a Bengal schtick. Your criticism of them is warranted, but your solution to the league wide problem is cloudy, at best. Florio wrote,”So the only way to get teams to avoid players with a history of legal problems — or, even better, help the player change his unlawful ways — is to strip the team of draft picks.”

Let me get this straight, Pac-Man will all of a sudden become a model citizen in a bar filled with poles and naked beauties because his team might lose a fifth round pick? Chris Henry won’t don his jersey on and wave a gun at a crowd of people because it could cost his Bengals a sixth round pick? I will concede that your system may discourage teams from drafting such players, but there is no way it will “help the player change his unlawful ways.” That’s completely laughable. Do you honestly believe that?

I’m a regular reader of PFT, and a Bengal fan….which is problably the exception, rather than the rule, over there. It’s an informative and an enjoyable site, even though, seemingly, not a day goes by when you’re not incessantly beating the character drum with a Bengal schtick. Your criticism of them is warranted, but your solution to the league wide problem is cloudy, at best.

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]]> By: Geronimo http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27210 Geronimo Sat, 10 May 2008 01:45:54 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27210 Mike Florio wrote,"So the only way to get teams to avoid players with a history of legal problems -- or, even better, help the player change his unlawful ways -- is to strip the team of draft picks." Let me get this straight, Pac-Man will all of a sudden become a model citizen in a bar filled with poles and naked beauties because his team might lose a fifth round pick? Chris Henry won't don his jersey on and wave a gun at a crowd of people because it could cost his Bengals a sixth round pick? I will concede that your system may discourage teams from drafting such players, but there is no way it will "help the player change his unlawful ways." That's completely laughable. Do you honestly believe that? I'm a regular reader of PFT, and a Bengal fan....which is problably the exception, rather than the rule, over here. It's an informative and an enjoyable site, even though, seemingly not a day goes by when you're not incessantly beating the character drum with a Bengal schtick. Your criticism of them is warranted, but your solution to the league wide problem is cloudy, at best. The solution is a simple one, impose stiffer sanctions on the players. Somebody smarter than me can come up the parameters...but it shouldn't be that hard to figure out. For example: 1. DUI's... 1st offense = 1 year suspension...2nd offense = Seek alternative employment. 2. Convictions resulting in the use of a firearm come with a lifetime ban. 3. Assault...Hit your wife??? Beat up your neighbor??? Road Rage??? See ya in 2 years. The players need to be held accountable for their actions, not the owners. Most of these guys have grown up in a world where they aren't held accountable for their actions. Why should the NFL perpetuate the madness by shifting responsibility away from the player, yet again? It's a poorly reasoned solution. If the NFL is serious about polishing the league's image, they will come up with a conduct policy that covers every imaginable infraction, and a category for the unimaginable. Each infraction should carry a specific punishment, not an "independent review" by the commisioner. 1 year suspensions and lifetime bans should be the rule, rather than the exception. Players will either shape up, or they will be shipped out. End of story. Problem solved. No more theatrics, no more diversions of blame. You do the crime...you pay with the time. Mike Florio wrote,”So the only way to get teams to avoid players with a history of legal problems — or, even better, help the player change his unlawful ways — is to strip the team of draft picks.”

Let me get this straight, Pac-Man will all of a sudden become a model citizen in a bar filled with poles and naked beauties because his team might lose a fifth round pick? Chris Henry won’t don his jersey on and wave a gun at a crowd of people because it could cost his Bengals a sixth round pick? I will concede that your system may discourage teams from drafting such players, but there is no way it will “help the player change his unlawful ways.” That’s completely laughable. Do you honestly believe that?

I’m a regular reader of PFT, and a Bengal fan….which is problably the exception, rather than the rule, over here. It’s an informative and an enjoyable site, even though, seemingly not a day goes by when you’re not incessantly beating the character drum with a Bengal schtick. Your criticism of them is warranted, but your solution to the league wide problem is cloudy, at best.

The solution is a simple one, impose stiffer sanctions on the players. Somebody smarter than me can come up the parameters…but it shouldn’t be that hard to figure out.

For example:

1. DUI’s… 1st offense = 1 year suspension…2nd offense = Seek alternative employment.

2. Convictions resulting in the use of a firearm come with a lifetime ban.

3. Assault…Hit your wife??? Beat up your neighbor??? Road Rage??? See ya in 2 years.

The players need to be held accountable for their actions, not the owners. Most of these guys have grown up in a world where they aren’t held accountable for their actions. Why should the NFL perpetuate the madness by shifting responsibility away from the player, yet again? It’s a poorly reasoned solution.

If the NFL is serious about polishing the league’s image, they will come up with a conduct policy that covers every imaginable infraction, and a category for the unimaginable. Each infraction should carry a specific punishment, not an “independent review” by the commisioner. 1 year suspensions and lifetime bans should be the rule, rather than the exception. Players will either shape up, or they will be shipped out. End of story. Problem solved. No more theatrics, no more diversions of blame. You do the crime…you pay with the time.

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]]> By: Treez http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27209 Treez Sat, 10 May 2008 01:45:47 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27209 Well, I I I I think that... Resident Studdering Emmitt at PFT. Well, I I I I think that… Resident Studdering Emmitt at PFT.

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]]> By: brewdog21 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27207 brewdog21 Sat, 10 May 2008 01:40:05 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27207 Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones, Nate Newton, Michael Irvin, Quincy Carter, Mark Stepnowski, etc. Yeah, the Bengals prove that if you continue to harbor criminals and lose that you are a punch line. If you are "America's Team" (yak!) then it's all good. Grow up, jack-holes, every team in the NFL has a handful of bad guys, so everyone is at risk. My father-in-law once said, "The Rooney's Steelers wouldn't put up with the kind of character issues the Bengals have had." Meanwhile, you have "Dookie" Davenport, Santonio "Ike Turner" Homes, James "got a great lawyer" Harrison, and that long storied mascot, "Steely: McBeam still on the team. Classy. Note: I didn't even mention Cedrick "4th String, Expendible" Wilson, or Richard "Pimp" Siegler. Bottom line (yeah, bring it, I know one poster hates "bottom line"), The league is full of Turds, the sport is full of turds. I don't know the solution, but as long as winning teams like the Cowboys are lauded for their "efforts to reform" and the Raiders and Bengals are punished for taking these guys in the first place that's just not going to solve dick. Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones, Nate Newton, Michael Irvin, Quincy Carter, Mark Stepnowski, etc.

Yeah, the Bengals prove that if you continue to harbor criminals and lose that you are a punch line. If you are “America’s Team” (yak!) then it’s all good.

Grow up, jack-holes, every team in the NFL has a handful of bad guys, so everyone is at risk. My father-in-law once said, “The Rooney’s Steelers wouldn’t put up with the kind of character issues the Bengals have had.” Meanwhile, you have “Dookie” Davenport, Santonio “Ike Turner” Homes, James “got a great lawyer” Harrison, and that long storied mascot, “Steely: McBeam still on the team. Classy. Note: I didn’t even mention Cedrick “4th String, Expendible” Wilson, or Richard “Pimp” Siegler.

Bottom line (yeah, bring it, I know one poster hates “bottom line”), The league is full of Turds, the sport is full of turds. I don’t know the solution, but as long as winning teams like the Cowboys are lauded for their “efforts to reform” and the Raiders and Bengals are punished for taking these guys in the first place that’s just not going to solve dick.

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]]> By: FF Geek http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27202 FF Geek Sat, 10 May 2008 01:29:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27202 agking13, do you really think the Cowboys and Patriots get treated differently?! When the Patriots brought Moss in, there was incredible debate about whether this was a good thing for anyone or not, and the issue wasn't, "Is Randy Moss a good player." No, the criticism was that the Patriots were rewarding a player with troubled history. I remind you that Moss never killed anyone, nor was forced to plead no contest, nor hope that a charge would be expunged from their record. Have you completely missed all the criticism against the Cowboys for the deal they struck to get Pacman, and it was an incredible business decision! Pacman will be great if he ever plays again, but the Cowboys are being skinned alive over it in the media (and rightfully so!). With the sweetheart team of the NFL (the Colts) facing an issue with Marvin Harrison now, the media is certainly doing what they can to expose the issue and I have no doubt they will hear a lot if Harrison sees charges. The problem with the Bengals is an extended pattern of bringing in punks, and then sitting idly by as the continue to be punks. Right now, the Bengals are on point because their activity clearly shows that character is not a factor in their decision process. Perhaps the rest of us can learn that such a model makes no sense either - the distractions in their locker room more than counter balance whatever talent is brought to it! agking13, do you really think the Cowboys and Patriots get treated differently?! When the Patriots brought Moss in, there was incredible debate about whether this was a good thing for anyone or not, and the issue wasn’t, “Is Randy Moss a good player.” No, the criticism was that the Patriots were rewarding a player with troubled history. I remind you that Moss never killed anyone, nor was forced to plead no contest, nor hope that a charge would be expunged from their record. Have you completely missed all the criticism against the Cowboys for the deal they struck to get Pacman, and it was an incredible business decision! Pacman will be great if he ever plays again, but the Cowboys are being skinned alive over it in the media (and rightfully so!). With the sweetheart team of the NFL (the Colts) facing an issue with Marvin Harrison now, the media is certainly doing what they can to expose the issue and I have no doubt they will hear a lot if Harrison sees charges. The problem with the Bengals is an extended pattern of bringing in punks, and then sitting idly by as the continue to be punks. Right now, the Bengals are on point because their activity clearly shows that character is not a factor in their decision process. Perhaps the rest of us can learn that such a model makes no sense either - the distractions in their locker room more than counter balance whatever talent is brought to it!

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]]> By: dirtdonthirt http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27199 dirtdonthirt Sat, 10 May 2008 01:24:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27199 Nobody's even mentioning Vick here (Michael, that is). Here you have a superstar that a team had hung their championship hopes, ad campaigns, jerseys, and future seat sales onto. I think the Atlanta Falcons are being punished enough, especially for something they probably never conceived. There are too many vices, pitfalls, and situations a person (especially ones with even minor celebrity status) can be lured into, and these players are only human. The players are adults, and should be able to stay out of jail without team intervention. Owners can build a team of role models if they want, but they might miss on maximizing their talent level by passing on second chances that (rare as though it seems) might actually better themselves. It's a guessing game, so I am not for individual teams being penalized, other than losing the players' services and any public embarassment the team might be caused. I'm a Bengals fan. The team's reputation (especially during an extremely rough patch) took a hit that it's still recovering from, hence being mentioned as 'the worst'. Florio's not Bengal bashing, but it is singling out one team, when it is most certainly a league-wide issue. Nobody’s even mentioning Vick here (Michael, that is). Here you have a superstar that a team had hung their championship hopes, ad campaigns, jerseys, and future seat sales onto. I think the Atlanta Falcons are being punished enough, especially for something they probably never conceived. There are too many vices, pitfalls, and situations a person (especially ones with even minor celebrity status) can be lured into, and these players are only human. The players are adults, and should be able to stay out of jail without team intervention. Owners can build a team of role models if they want, but they might miss on maximizing their talent level by passing on second chances that (rare as though it seems) might actually better themselves. It’s a guessing game, so I am not for individual teams being penalized, other than losing the players’ services and any public embarassment the team might be caused.

I’m a Bengals fan. The team’s reputation (especially during an extremely rough patch) took a hit that it’s still recovering from, hence being mentioned as ‘the worst’. Florio’s not Bengal bashing, but it is singling out one team, when it is most certainly a league-wide issue.

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]]> By: hitdog042 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27196 hitdog042 Sat, 10 May 2008 01:14:34 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27196 The Bengals get rid of their guys. These guys are speaking the truth. The Bengals did punish them in house, and cut/traded most of the others. The Browns got no critique for signing Steinbach. They just signed Austin Scott. Another guy is to go to trial in Wright. The Cowboys don't get grief ever. Neither do the Pats. It is sort of ridiculous. And when Henry signs elsewhere, if he blows up, the Bengals will get slammed for not keeping him. Just wait and see. It's not a Bengals issue. It's an NFL issue. These guys are everywhere. The ONLY reason the Bengals got so much grief is because they had multiple cases in a close period of time. However, they clearly do not have the most cases if you look over the last 7 or 8 years. They don't even have the most cases now, but it is fun to make fun of the Bengals. Writers still think it's 1998. The Bengals get rid of their guys. These guys are speaking the truth. The Bengals did punish them in house, and cut/traded most of the others. The Browns got no critique for signing Steinbach. They just signed Austin Scott. Another guy is to go to trial in Wright.

The Cowboys don’t get grief ever. Neither do the Pats. It is sort of ridiculous. And when Henry signs elsewhere, if he blows up, the Bengals will get slammed for not keeping him. Just wait and see.

It’s not a Bengals issue. It’s an NFL issue. These guys are everywhere. The ONLY reason the Bengals got so much grief is because they had multiple cases in a close period of time.

However, they clearly do not have the most cases if you look over the last 7 or 8 years.

They don’t even have the most cases now, but it is fun to make fun of the Bengals. Writers still think it’s 1998.

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]]> By: Draft King http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27195 Draft King Sat, 10 May 2008 00:52:53 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27195 If a player misbehaves and is punished by the NFL, particularly when it comes to suspensions, the team that employs him is punished as a result by losing his services for whatever time he faces suspension. Forcing its teams to play a guessing game of who will do what in the future (with after-the-fact punishments) is, in my estimation, something that the NFL would be well-served to avoid. If a player misbehaves and is punished by the NFL, particularly when it comes to suspensions, the team that employs him is punished as a result by losing his services for whatever time he faces suspension.

Forcing its teams to play a guessing game of who will do what in the future (with after-the-fact punishments) is, in my estimation, something that the NFL would be well-served to avoid.

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]]> By: KFech http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27194 KFech Sat, 10 May 2008 00:51:18 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27194 Many of the comments have two main themes: 1) It is not fair to punish teams because it is impossible to predict who will commit a crime. 2) It is, in principle, not fair to punish the teams for what the players (independent human beings) do. Without taking one side or the other in the debate about whether such a system should be introduced, I think the faults in those lines of thinking are worth pointing out. In regards to #1, there is a saying: "The best predictor of future behavior is......PAST behavior." Someone like Marvin Harrison who has never been convicted of a crime would not trigger the system as Florio has written it. Go read the article again - REPEAT OFFENDERS are the target of such a policy. Concerning #2, he isn't saying it is "fair" to punish the teams, he is saying that it would be an effective way to stop them from taking chances on shady players, thus getting them out of the league. And again, we are talking about people who have a history (sometimes an EXTENSIVE history) of run-ins with the law, not a new offender who makes a one-time mistake. I think maybe the "trigger" of Florio's proposal needs to be raised (i.e. it should take a certain number issues to result in punishment), but the principle is a sound one if the goal is to clean up the league. Many of the comments have two main themes:

1) It is not fair to punish teams because it is impossible to predict who will commit a crime.

2) It is, in principle, not fair to punish the teams for what the players (independent human beings) do.

Without taking one side or the other in the debate about whether such a system should be introduced, I think the faults in those lines of thinking are worth pointing out.

In regards to #1, there is a saying: “The best predictor of future behavior is……PAST behavior.” Someone like Marvin Harrison who has never been convicted of a crime would not trigger the system as Florio has written it. Go read the article again - REPEAT OFFENDERS are the target of such a policy.

Concerning #2, he isn’t saying it is “fair” to punish the teams, he is saying that it would be an effective way to stop them from taking chances on shady players, thus getting them out of the league. And again, we are talking about people who have a history (sometimes an EXTENSIVE history) of run-ins with the law, not a new offender who makes a one-time mistake.

I think maybe the “trigger” of Florio’s proposal needs to be raised (i.e. it should take a certain number issues to result in punishment), but the principle is a sound one if the goal is to clean up the league.

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]]> By: bcmcknight77 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27192 bcmcknight77 Sat, 10 May 2008 00:42:17 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27192 Ahh, leave it to Bungles fans to come out in full force in defense of their collective turds. I thought it was a great article, and a brilliant idea. With two kids of my own, I don't want them looking up to Vicks and Joneses and Henrys. I'd propose in addition to what you wrote (which is great, as it deters turds from entering the NFL), install hardline rules (which may exist but are totally ignored in regards to suspensions and expulsions. Why is this a case by case basis that allows the commish to review them individually? Just make it simple, like the steroid policy: 1st Arrest--warning and into a "be a decent human being" program involving counseling. (exception--violent arrests bump you to level 2 automatically). 2nd Arrest--4 game suspension. 3rd Arrest--Year long suspension 4th Arrest--You're done. Get out. Try the CFL. It worked for Lawrence Phillips....oh...wait. Ahh, leave it to Bungles fans to come out in full force in defense of their collective turds.

I thought it was a great article, and a brilliant idea. With two kids of my own, I don’t want them looking up to Vicks and Joneses and Henrys. I’d propose in addition to what you wrote (which is great, as it deters turds from entering the NFL), install hardline rules (which may exist but are totally ignored in regards to suspensions and expulsions.

Why is this a case by case basis that allows the commish to review them individually? Just make it simple, like the steroid policy:

1st Arrest–warning and into a “be a decent human being” program involving counseling. (exception–violent arrests bump you to level 2 automatically).

2nd Arrest–4 game suspension.

3rd Arrest–Year long suspension

4th Arrest–You’re done. Get out. Try the CFL. It worked for Lawrence Phillips….oh…wait.

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]]> By: NonYahooHotmailAcct http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27191 NonYahooHotmailAcct Sat, 10 May 2008 00:41:19 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27191 So you're gonna punish a team that has already lost a player and has to draft his replacement by taking away a draft choice? Two unofficial sanctions is enough. No reason for a third. So you’re gonna punish a team that has already lost a player and has to draft his replacement by taking away a draft choice? Two unofficial sanctions is enough. No reason for a third.

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]]> By: myusernamestinks http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27183 myusernamestinks Sat, 10 May 2008 00:00:53 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27183 It's not just the teams that give these habitual criminals endless second chances, it's the league. If these players weren't available, teams wouldn't be tempted. Goodell even allows teams to trade suspended players. Some owners might decide they want good citizens dating their daughters and good athletes on their rosters, and if they win enough, they'll be forfeiting one of the last picks in the round instead of one of the first. It’s not just the teams that give these habitual criminals endless second chances, it’s the league. If these players weren’t available, teams wouldn’t be tempted. Goodell even allows teams to trade suspended players. Some owners might decide they want good citizens dating their daughters and good athletes on their rosters, and if they win enough, they’ll be forfeiting one of the last picks in the round instead of one of the first.

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]]> By: beninaz http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27180 beninaz Fri, 09 May 2008 23:52:18 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27180 Thanks freddie, that was really funny. Now, Bengal school is in session: We have two active players right now with an arrest record since becoming a Bengal...J Joseph for possession (2 game suspension by Marvin Lewis) of marijuana and Odell Thurman for DUI and failing at the NFL substance abuse program (2 year suspension for that one). Everyone else that was a turd is now bagging groceries or playing for the Browns (one in the same). No history of 'roids, cheating, or picking up players who were previously turds on other NFL teams...how's your team doing with all that?? Thanks freddie, that was really funny. Now, Bengal school is in session: We have two active players right now with an arrest record since becoming a Bengal…J Joseph for possession (2 game suspension by Marvin Lewis) of marijuana and Odell Thurman for DUI and failing at the NFL substance abuse program (2 year suspension for that one). Everyone else that was a turd is now bagging groceries or playing for the Browns (one in the same). No history of ‘roids, cheating, or picking up players who were previously turds on other NFL teams…how’s your team doing with all that??

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]]> By: beninaz http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27176 beninaz Fri, 09 May 2008 23:46:10 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27176 I'm just hoping that a good upstanding team like the Steelers does the same thing as the Bengals and suspends their own players for first infractions. Joseph, starting CB for the Bengals got a 2-gamer from Lewis for possession of mary-jane. I'm sure the Steelers will give at least that much for hitting a woman. So its going to be fun watching them start the season with about 14 active players! I’m just hoping that a good upstanding team like the Steelers does the same thing as the Bengals and suspends their own players for first infractions. Joseph, starting CB for the Bengals got a 2-gamer from Lewis for possession of mary-jane. I’m sure the Steelers will give at least that much for hitting a woman. So its going to be fun watching them start the season with about 14 active players!

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]]> By: freddietimm http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27172 freddietimm Fri, 09 May 2008 23:41:02 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27172 Sure, Bungles fans, your team is innocent and a pinnacle of NFL values. Ignore the legal history of your players over the past 4 years, but you should still realize that your "Bengal" stripes look curiously like fingerprint stains. Coincidence? I think not. Apparently, neither do the police, regardless of jurisdiction. Sure, Bungles fans, your team is innocent and a pinnacle of NFL values.

Ignore the legal history of your players over the past 4 years, but you should still realize that your “Bengal” stripes look curiously like fingerprint stains.

Coincidence? I think not. Apparently, neither do the police, regardless of jurisdiction.

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]]> By: jrc http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27171 jrc Fri, 09 May 2008 23:38:55 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27171 Florio, I like you. You are a bright guy. You made a lot good points about the going-ons in the league. But, your proposal to punish teams for their players' misdeed is makes no sense. There are 53 players on every teams roster, and then some more. It's not that easy to keep your eyes on them. And, don't forget there's number of players like Marvin Harrison who can tick off when we least expect it. So, how would their respective team know about that way ahead of time? Pacman Jones was fine in college. Once he got to NFL, he became the delinquent. It's hard to see it. It's players that NFL needs to keep going after. They should increase the fines and add clause to the players' contract that gives the league a leverage to retain their bonus should players violate the personal conduct policy. Florio, I like you. You are a bright guy. You made a lot good points about the going-ons in the league. But, your proposal to punish teams for their players’ misdeed is makes no sense. There are 53 players on every teams roster, and then some more. It’s not that easy to keep your eyes on them. And, don’t forget there’s number of players like Marvin Harrison who can tick off when we least expect it. So, how would their respective team know about that way ahead of time? Pacman Jones was fine in college. Once he got to NFL, he became the delinquent. It’s hard to see it.

It’s players that NFL needs to keep going after. They should increase the fines and add clause to the players’ contract that gives the league a leverage to retain their bonus should players violate the personal conduct policy.

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]]> By: beninaz http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27170 beninaz Fri, 09 May 2008 23:34:18 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27170 Man, what a waste of time clicking over to that article. In the past, teams like the Cincinnati Bengals were handcuffed by what they could or couldn't do to players in terms of punishment. The Bengals, before any other team, cut or traded players who got in trouble (Mathias Askew, Eric Steinbach, AJ Nicholson) and the team itself suspended others on first strike (Henry for 4 games, Jonathan Joseph for 2). What other clubs have done this? The Patriots not only got caught cheating, but didn't do a thing to one of their players for admitting to using steroids (yes, HGH is a steroid and will elevate your recovery and gameplay, I used to bodybuild). Gimme a break Florio, its almost funny...change your site to ProBengalbash.com Man, what a waste of time clicking over to that article. In the past, teams like the Cincinnati Bengals were handcuffed by what they could or couldn’t do to players in terms of punishment. The Bengals, before any other team, cut or traded players who got in trouble (Mathias Askew, Eric Steinbach, AJ Nicholson) and the team itself suspended others on first strike (Henry for 4 games, Jonathan Joseph for 2). What other clubs have done this? The Patriots not only got caught cheating, but didn’t do a thing to one of their players for admitting to using steroids (yes, HGH is a steroid and will elevate your recovery and gameplay, I used to bodybuild). Gimme a break Florio, its almost funny…change your site to ProBengalbash.com

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]]> By: vinny cerrato http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27167 vinny cerrato Fri, 09 May 2008 23:18:40 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27167 bad idea and the owners will never allow such a plan you simply can't predict what people and turds are going to do and then penalize the team when __________ player gets in trouble. you want to set a precedent set a 3 strikes and your OUT policy. bad idea and the owners will never allow such a plan

you simply can’t predict what people and turds are going to do and then penalize the team when __________ player gets in trouble.

you want to set a precedent set a 3 strikes and your OUT policy.

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]]> By: batboy1784 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27166 batboy1784 Fri, 09 May 2008 23:16:48 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27166 Florio, I love your website, but you have been taking things too far. It seems to me that this your path to greater notoriety and fame- the player discipline angle. By singling out the Bengals in your post (I am a huge Bengals fan and don't defend the players, or the team for past problems, but...), you ignore everything you post on your website daily: players from all teams getting arrested. To some degree, player conduct needs to be controlled. However, this takes it way too far. Are you saying that ex-convicts don't have a right to seek employment? As a lawyer you should know better than that. Moreover, what happens when a player who has had no trouble with the law (i.e. Marvin Harrison) shoots someone in the hand, or worse kills someone, and the team gets docked a first round draft pick? That is absurd. Even when employers in the regular private sector hire people, they cannot be sure that that person will not, given certain circumstance, commit a crime. It's time to get back to what you do well: analyzing the business that is football and pointing out the B.S. when you see it. It's time to get over yourself; I'm sure your goal is to get this program adopted by the league so that you can take credit for its turn around. It's opportunistic, egotistical, and may in action violate the rights of citizens to seek employment. Florio, I love your website, but you have been taking things too far. It seems to me that this your path to greater notoriety and fame- the player discipline angle. By singling out the Bengals in your post (I am a huge Bengals fan and don’t defend the players, or the team for past problems, but…), you ignore everything you post on your website daily: players from all teams getting arrested. To some degree, player conduct needs to be controlled. However, this takes it way too far. Are you saying that ex-convicts don’t have a right to seek employment? As a lawyer you should know better than that. Moreover, what happens when a player who has had no trouble with the law (i.e. Marvin Harrison) shoots someone in the hand, or worse kills someone, and the team gets docked a first round draft pick? That is absurd. Even when employers in the regular private sector hire people, they cannot be sure that that person will not, given certain circumstance, commit a crime. It’s time to get back to what you do well: analyzing the business that is football and pointing out the B.S. when you see it. It’s time to get over yourself; I’m sure your goal is to get this program adopted by the league so that you can take credit for its turn around. It’s opportunistic, egotistical, and may in action violate the rights of citizens to seek employment.

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]]> By: Quagmire06 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27161 Quagmire06 Fri, 09 May 2008 23:07:27 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27161 As a Vikings fan, this policy should be instituted once we deal with McKinnie.....I think otherwise, we have no other problems besides him...... Then we tell Jared, don't drink As a Vikings fan, this policy should be instituted once we deal with McKinnie…..I think otherwise, we have no other problems besides him……

Then we tell Jared, don’t drink

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]]> By: PeteJayhawk http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27160 PeteJayhawk Fri, 09 May 2008 23:06:54 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27160 Mike- Do you think the League and/or Union should do more on the rehabilitation front for misfit players? Perhaps recidivist players should have to undergo some sort of course for how to not act like a knucklehead? Just a thought, though probably a poorly-conceived one. Mike-

Do you think the League and/or Union should do more on the rehabilitation front for misfit players? Perhaps recidivist players should have to undergo some sort of course for how to not act like a knucklehead? Just a thought, though probably a poorly-conceived one.

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]]> By: freddietimm http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27156 freddietimm Fri, 09 May 2008 22:57:13 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27156 Great concept, but wouldn't it be easier to ban platers from Miami, Las Vegas, and "The ATL?" That would reduce arrests/incidents by 75% by itself. Great concept, but wouldn’t it be easier to ban platers from Miami, Las Vegas, and “The ATL?” That would reduce arrests/incidents by 75% by itself.

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]]> By: AlexanderIsland http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27152 AlexanderIsland Fri, 09 May 2008 22:42:57 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27152 Maybe they could start off just making it public that any college player that does anything that ends up getting them in trouble with the law is pretty much off limits - I must imagine that all the troublemakers start getting into trouble much before the NFL, so may as well prune the vine before they get to the winery... Maybe they could start off just making it public that any college player that does anything that ends up getting them in trouble with the law is pretty much off limits - I must imagine that all the troublemakers start getting into trouble much before the NFL, so may as well prune the vine before they get to the winery…

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]]> By: ChrisJNelson http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27151 ChrisJNelson Fri, 09 May 2008 22:41:17 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/09/a-plan-for-plucking-picks-when-players-misbehave/#comment-27151 I think your proposal is absolutely ridiculous. I do not believe a team should be held responsible if one of their players does something wrong. Should we give teams draft picks every time one of their players does something good for the community? It is simply not their job to babysit these players - it is their job to field a winning a team. A team should be able to sign anyone it wants and given anyone another chance if they see fit and if they feel he can help them on the field. If a player gets into trouble, that is their own problem and they will be punished by the league, the law and the team if they feel like it. But it is not a team's fault if one of their players commits a crime. If an employee for a corporation gets in trouble, should the government fine the corporation? Hell no, because it's not their responsibility. That's what laws are for - to punish criminals. I think your proposal is absolutely ridiculous. I do not believe a team should be held responsible if one of their players does something wrong. Should we give teams draft picks every time one of their players does something good for the community?

It is simply not their job to babysit these players - it is their job to field a winning a team. A team should be able to sign anyone it wants and given anyone another chance if they see fit and if they feel he can help them on the field.

If a player gets into trouble, that is their own problem and they will be punished by the league, the law and the team if they feel like it. But it is not a team’s fault if one of their players commits a crime. If an employee for a corporation gets in trouble, should the government fine the corporation? Hell no, because it’s not their responsibility. That’s what laws are for - to punish criminals.

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