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There’s an interesting item on SportingNews.com, written by someone whose name you might recognize, regarding the ongoing problem of player misconduct in the NFL. Since a beefed-up Personal Conduct Policy isn’t stopping players from getting arrested on a somewhat regular basis, the league needs to be prepared to impose real penalties on the teams that continue to provide these players an endless supply of second chances.
The only way to get the attention of the teams is to take away draft picks, and the best way to do that is to create a formula that applies equally to each and every team.
The article sets forth the proposed approach, and you can read it right here.
May 9th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
They’ll already lose a player, sometimes a very good player like PacBoy, when they get suspended. I think that is punishment enough.
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Rating: 4.25 / 5 with 8 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Did anyone see the comment on Sporting News the first guy left? What a moron! He isn’t Bengal Bashing!
Good System Florio.
But who would get the taken draft picks. Could they be used as awards to teams whose players behave?
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Rating: 1.5 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
I think this is overly convoluted and dumb.
How about the NFL just suspends or expels these players? If you’ve been arrested 8 times, maybe the NFL should just remove the temptation and ban the guy. This proposal simply puts too much power in the hands of a player who has already shown they aren’t responsible enough.
Players do, and I know you agree, deserve a second chance, why punish a team for believing they can turn a guy around? Your Turd Watch does a great job of shaming the teams who have a clear record of signing thugs.
The number one flaw in this is that neither your Turd Watch nor your draft pick proposal rewards teams for doing the right thing. The Turd Watch should reward teams that subsequently cut arrested players. And your draft pick proposal should at least reward teams that are successful at helping a player become a better citizen after a checkered past.
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Rating: 4.45 / 5 with 7 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
I kinda feel like you’re jumping the gun a little here Florio. I don’t think any of us, players included, truly understood what the revamped conduct policy would turn into until this past season. However, there’s another issue that I feel may keep the current system from getting much tougher. How many of the NEW players coming in every season have practically had their bums wiped for them since high-school? Chances are, more than a few guys will have to be slapped upside the head a couple times before they realize they aren’t gonna be coddled any more.
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Rating: 4.25 / 5 with 8 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
This is dumb as rocks. We are talking about grown ass people. They can stay out of jail, they can play football.
How is a team responsible or liable for a grown ass man commiting a crime? They are punished enough by losing the player for what ever time he is in jail or on suspension.
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Rating: 4.3 / 5 with 11 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
I like some of it, but what if a team doesn’t have the corresponding draft picks needed to pay said penalty, i.e. the team trades its second round pick for a turd who commits another violent act, or they trade or have traded multiple picks and now have violent and or otherwise criminals on the roster who re-offend.
Would there be another way to handle this, if the draft picks are not there to correspond with the proper penalty, and could a team claim the league is biased, if they choose to use a higher or lower or some combo to instead match up the penalty (I’m thinking use the draft chart for trades system to figure something out).
There are some holes in this idea.
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Rating: 1.8 / 5 with 5 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Its funny that the Bengals always get ridiculed for their picks, yet just about no other team does. If the Patriots or Cowboys bring a player in with “character issues” then the media says, “What a great pick, they can really turn this player around.” If the Raiders pick up someone, then its, “Oh Al Davis always takes a risk on players, thats just ole’ Al.”
All I’ve heard about the Jared Allen trade to Minnesota is how great the Vikings defense is going to be. But doesn’t Jared Allen have two D.U.I.’s? Instead of ridiculing the Vikings, the media praises them for this trade.
I’m sure if the Cowboys, Redskins, or Eagles pick up Chris Henry, all the media will say is how great of a WR they are getting at a cheap value.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 13 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
I think your proposal is absolutely ridiculous. I do not believe a team should be held responsible if one of their players does something wrong. Should we give teams draft picks every time one of their players does something good for the community?
It is simply not their job to babysit these players - it is their job to field a winning a team. A team should be able to sign anyone it wants and given anyone another chance if they see fit and if they feel he can help them on the field.
If a player gets into trouble, that is their own problem and they will be punished by the league, the law and the team if they feel like it. But it is not a team’s fault if one of their players commits a crime. If an employee for a corporation gets in trouble, should the government fine the corporation? Hell no, because it’s not their responsibility. That’s what laws are for - to punish criminals.
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Rating: 4.3 / 5 with 13 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Maybe they could start off just making it public that any college player that does anything that ends up getting them in trouble with the law is pretty much off limits - I must imagine that all the troublemakers start getting into trouble much before the NFL, so may as well prune the vine before they get to the winery…
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Rating: 2.35 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Great concept, but wouldn’t it be easier to ban platers from Miami, Las Vegas, and “The ATL?” That would reduce arrests/incidents by 75% by itself.
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Rating: 2.7 / 5 with 7 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Mike-
Do you think the League and/or Union should do more on the rehabilitation front for misfit players? Perhaps recidivist players should have to undergo some sort of course for how to not act like a knucklehead? Just a thought, though probably a poorly-conceived one.
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Rating: 3.35 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
As a Vikings fan, this policy should be instituted once we deal with McKinnie…..I think otherwise, we have no other problems besides him……
Then we tell Jared, don’t drink
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Rating: 2.25 / 5 with 4 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Florio, I love your website, but you have been taking things too far. It seems to me that this your path to greater notoriety and fame- the player discipline angle. By singling out the Bengals in your post (I am a huge Bengals fan and don’t defend the players, or the team for past problems, but…), you ignore everything you post on your website daily: players from all teams getting arrested. To some degree, player conduct needs to be controlled. However, this takes it way too far. Are you saying that ex-convicts don’t have a right to seek employment? As a lawyer you should know better than that. Moreover, what happens when a player who has had no trouble with the law (i.e. Marvin Harrison) shoots someone in the hand, or worse kills someone, and the team gets docked a first round draft pick? That is absurd. Even when employers in the regular private sector hire people, they cannot be sure that that person will not, given certain circumstance, commit a crime. It’s time to get back to what you do well: analyzing the business that is football and pointing out the B.S. when you see it. It’s time to get over yourself; I’m sure your goal is to get this program adopted by the league so that you can take credit for its turn around. It’s opportunistic, egotistical, and may in action violate the rights of citizens to seek employment.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 9 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
bad idea and the owners will never allow such a plan
you simply can’t predict what people and turds are going to do and then penalize the team when __________ player gets in trouble.
you want to set a precedent set a 3 strikes and your OUT policy.
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Rating: 4 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Man, what a waste of time clicking over to that article. In the past, teams like the Cincinnati Bengals were handcuffed by what they could or couldn’t do to players in terms of punishment. The Bengals, before any other team, cut or traded players who got in trouble (Mathias Askew, Eric Steinbach, AJ Nicholson) and the team itself suspended others on first strike (Henry for 4 games, Jonathan Joseph for 2). What other clubs have done this? The Patriots not only got caught cheating, but didn’t do a thing to one of their players for admitting to using steroids (yes, HGH is a steroid and will elevate your recovery and gameplay, I used to bodybuild). Gimme a break Florio, its almost funny…change your site to ProBengalbash.com
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Rating: 3.95 / 5 with 10 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Florio, I like you. You are a bright guy. You made a lot good points about the going-ons in the league. But, your proposal to punish teams for their players’ misdeed is makes no sense. There are 53 players on every teams roster, and then some more. It’s not that easy to keep your eyes on them. And, don’t forget there’s number of players like Marvin Harrison who can tick off when we least expect it. So, how would their respective team know about that way ahead of time? Pacman Jones was fine in college. Once he got to NFL, he became the delinquent. It’s hard to see it.
It’s players that NFL needs to keep going after. They should increase the fines and add clause to the players’ contract that gives the league a leverage to retain their bonus should players violate the personal conduct policy.
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Rating: 3.8 / 5 with 11 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Sure, Bungles fans, your team is innocent and a pinnacle of NFL values.
Ignore the legal history of your players over the past 4 years, but you should still realize that your “Bengal” stripes look curiously like fingerprint stains.
Coincidence? I think not. Apparently, neither do the police, regardless of jurisdiction.
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Rating: 2 / 5 with 8 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
I’m just hoping that a good upstanding team like the Steelers does the same thing as the Bengals and suspends their own players for first infractions. Joseph, starting CB for the Bengals got a 2-gamer from Lewis for possession of mary-jane. I’m sure the Steelers will give at least that much for hitting a woman. So its going to be fun watching them start the season with about 14 active players!
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May 9th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Thanks freddie, that was really funny. Now, Bengal school is in session: We have two active players right now with an arrest record since becoming a Bengal…J Joseph for possession (2 game suspension by Marvin Lewis) of marijuana and Odell Thurman for DUI and failing at the NFL substance abuse program (2 year suspension for that one). Everyone else that was a turd is now bagging groceries or playing for the Browns (one in the same). No history of ‘roids, cheating, or picking up players who were previously turds on other NFL teams…how’s your team doing with all that??
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
It’s not just the teams that give these habitual criminals endless second chances, it’s the league. If these players weren’t available, teams wouldn’t be tempted. Goodell even allows teams to trade suspended players. Some owners might decide they want good citizens dating their daughters and good athletes on their rosters, and if they win enough, they’ll be forfeiting one of the last picks in the round instead of one of the first.
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May 9th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
So you’re gonna punish a team that has already lost a player and has to draft his replacement by taking away a draft choice? Two unofficial sanctions is enough. No reason for a third.
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Ahh, leave it to Bungles fans to come out in full force in defense of their collective turds.
I thought it was a great article, and a brilliant idea. With two kids of my own, I don’t want them looking up to Vicks and Joneses and Henrys. I’d propose in addition to what you wrote (which is great, as it deters turds from entering the NFL), install hardline rules (which may exist but are totally ignored in regards to suspensions and expulsions.
Why is this a case by case basis that allows the commish to review them individually? Just make it simple, like the steroid policy:
1st Arrest–warning and into a “be a decent human being” program involving counseling. (exception–violent arrests bump you to level 2 automatically).
2nd Arrest–4 game suspension.
3rd Arrest–Year long suspension
4th Arrest–You’re done. Get out. Try the CFL. It worked for Lawrence Phillips….oh…wait.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Many of the comments have two main themes:
1) It is not fair to punish teams because it is impossible to predict who will commit a crime.
2) It is, in principle, not fair to punish the teams for what the players (independent human beings) do.
Without taking one side or the other in the debate about whether such a system should be introduced, I think the faults in those lines of thinking are worth pointing out.
In regards to #1, there is a saying: “The best predictor of future behavior is……PAST behavior.” Someone like Marvin Harrison who has never been convicted of a crime would not trigger the system as Florio has written it. Go read the article again - REPEAT OFFENDERS are the target of such a policy.
Concerning #2, he isn’t saying it is “fair” to punish the teams, he is saying that it would be an effective way to stop them from taking chances on shady players, thus getting them out of the league. And again, we are talking about people who have a history (sometimes an EXTENSIVE history) of run-ins with the law, not a new offender who makes a one-time mistake.
I think maybe the “trigger” of Florio’s proposal needs to be raised (i.e. it should take a certain number issues to result in punishment), but the principle is a sound one if the goal is to clean up the league.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
If a player misbehaves and is punished by the NFL, particularly when it comes to suspensions, the team that employs him is punished as a result by losing his services for whatever time he faces suspension.
Forcing its teams to play a guessing game of who will do what in the future (with after-the-fact punishments) is, in my estimation, something that the NFL would be well-served to avoid.
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Rating: 3 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 9th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
The Bengals get rid of their guys. These guys are speaking the truth. The Bengals did punish them in house, and cut/traded most of the others. The Browns got no critique for signing Steinbach. They just signed Austin Scott. Another guy is to go to trial in Wright.
The Cowboys don’t get grief ever. Neither do the Pats. It is sort of ridiculous. And when Henry signs elsewhere, if he blows up, the Bengals will get slammed for not keeping him. Just wait and see.
It’s not a Bengals issue. It’s an NFL issue. These guys are everywhere. The ONLY reason the Bengals got so much grief is because they had multiple cases in a close period of time.
However, they clearly do not have the most cases if you look over the last 7 or 8 years.
They don’t even have the most cases now, but it is fun to make fun of the Bengals. Writers still think it’s 1998.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)