Comments on: LEAGUE SAYS WALSH TAPES PROVIDE NO NEW EVIDENCE OF CHEATING http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:25:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: NR4 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-27157 NR4 Fri, 09 May 2008 23:04:29 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-27157 Right now, there are thousands of third world youths with 19- 0 t -shirts . Damn nice of the Patriots and their organization. It's almost like they lost for humanitarian reasons. Right now, there are thousands of third world youths with 19- 0 t -shirts . Damn nice of the Patriots and their organization. It’s almost like they lost for humanitarian reasons.

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]]> By: PFTiswhatitis http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26725 PFTiswhatitis Fri, 09 May 2008 12:46:35 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26725 Da Oracle you are making stuff up. No such thing ever happened. You will simply have to cope with the fact that Brady is better than the other QB's in the league and your team can;t beat the Pats. As I recall, there were 19 chances to beat the Pats last year and only the Giants managed to do it. Chew on that. Da Oracle you are making stuff up. No such thing ever happened. You will simply have to cope with the fact that Brady is better than the other QB’s in the league and your team can;t beat the Pats.

As I recall, there were 19 chances to beat the Pats last year and only the Giants managed to do it. Chew on that.

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]]> By: Da Oracle http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26686 Da Oracle Fri, 09 May 2008 10:38:53 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26686 While many fans are discussing the videotaping of defensive signals, somehow the use of unauthorized radio signals doesn't get much attention. It's been reported that the offensive linemen had microphones on/in their helmet to pick up defensive audibles. These were transmitted to a booth, where someone watched the defense and interpreted the audibles. How many times have we seen Brady stand up and point to a linebacker with 8-10 seconds on the play clock? That's because he knows what the defense is going to do? Now, when did Brady get this information so that he could adjust blocking schemes? Did he get it before the game? Did he get it on the sidelines between possessions? Or, did Brady have another speaker in his helmet so that the info could be passed to him immediately? It's the use of the unauthorized radio frequencies that make it possible/probable/almostdamncertain that the piracy of the defensive signals were used in the same game. Since we know that Goodell is hell bent on covering this thing up, and he mentioned "unauthorized radio frequencies" only once, I have to wonder exactly how much influence this had on any of the games. While many fans are discussing the videotaping of defensive signals, somehow the use of unauthorized radio signals doesn’t get much attention. It’s been reported that the offensive linemen had microphones on/in their helmet to pick up defensive audibles. These were transmitted to a booth, where someone watched the defense and interpreted the audibles. How many times have we seen Brady stand up and point to a linebacker with 8-10 seconds on the play clock? That’s because he knows what the defense is going to do? Now, when did Brady get this information so that he could adjust blocking schemes? Did he get it before the game? Did he get it on the sidelines between possessions? Or, did Brady have another speaker in his helmet so that the info could be passed to him immediately?

It’s the use of the unauthorized radio frequencies that make it possible/probable/almostdamncertain that the piracy of the defensive signals were used in the same game. Since we know that Goodell is hell bent on covering this thing up, and he mentioned “unauthorized radio frequencies” only once, I have to wonder exactly how much influence this had on any of the games.

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]]> By: bradtor777 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26528 bradtor777 Thu, 08 May 2008 23:38:24 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26528 This is a dead story. Walsh is just trying to stay in the limelight as long as possible. Afterward, it's back to his Caddyshack job as a middling golf pro. This is a dead story. Walsh is just trying to stay in the limelight as long as possible. Afterward, it’s back to his Caddyshack job as a middling golf pro.

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]]> By: steelerfan9598 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26512 steelerfan9598 Thu, 08 May 2008 23:11:47 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26512 'Stealing signals isn’t illegal, just videotaping them'. Uh, isn't that what happened. We'll justify our 'suckiness' after you justify your cheating. Now we know how a skinny 6th round pick becomes the greatest quarterback of all time - cheating. Not entirely unlike how Barry Bonds became the HR leader. I live in New England. Boston fans were alot more tolerable 8 years ago when the Pats were irrelevant and the Red Sox were 80 plus years removed from a championship. Now you guys are WORSE than Yankee fans. Yeah, you've become THAT guy. Congrats. ‘Stealing signals isn’t illegal, just videotaping them’. Uh, isn’t that what happened. We’ll justify our ’suckiness’ after you justify your cheating. Now we know how a skinny 6th round pick becomes the greatest quarterback of all time - cheating. Not entirely unlike how Barry Bonds became the HR leader. I live in New England. Boston fans were alot more tolerable 8 years ago when the Pats were irrelevant and the Red Sox were 80 plus years removed from a championship. Now you guys are WORSE than Yankee fans. Yeah, you’ve become THAT guy. Congrats.

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]]> By: PFTiswhatitis http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26494 PFTiswhatitis Thu, 08 May 2008 22:43:14 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26494 LOL, no tape and yet the haters still turn it into a negative against the Pats and the league. The whole thing is a convenient excuse to bash a team that is ruling the NFL like nothing thtas been done before. Stop kidding yourselves already thats all it is. ..and whats with it taking forever to post comments Florio? Fprget to pay the kid or what? LOL, no tape and yet the haters still turn it into a negative against the Pats and the league. The whole thing is a convenient excuse to bash a team that is ruling the NFL like nothing thtas been done before. Stop kidding yourselves already thats all it is.

..and whats with it taking forever to post comments Florio? Fprget to pay the kid or what?

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]]> By: Henry Plainview http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26477 Henry Plainview Thu, 08 May 2008 22:10:39 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26477 The NFL protected the Jets, since Goodell used to work for them. The Jets were caught spying but it was swept under the rug...FACT. The memo was sent to all teams because all teams film. Vermeil said the Pats wouldn't have gained an advantage had they taped the walk through. Nothing on the tapes shows anything different than what Belichick already told Goodell. Stealing signals isn't illegal, just videotaping them. you can watch, take pictures yada yada, hell, you can even videotape if it's from a certain location. Yeah, the Pats are real cheaters. Now all you haters who have teams that can't beat the Pats will find something new to justify your suckiness. The NFL protected the Jets, since Goodell used to work for them. The Jets were caught spying but it was swept under the rug…FACT.

The memo was sent to all teams because all teams film.

Vermeil said the Pats wouldn’t have gained an advantage had they taped the walk through.

Nothing on the tapes shows anything different than what Belichick already told Goodell.

Stealing signals isn’t illegal, just videotaping them. you can watch, take pictures yada yada, hell, you can even videotape if it’s from a certain location. Yeah, the Pats are real cheaters.

Now all you haters who have teams that can’t beat the Pats will find something new to justify your suckiness.

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]]> By: smilergrogan http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26473 smilergrogan Thu, 08 May 2008 21:52:40 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26473 bill belichick is one of the brightest minds in sports, if not the country. the wording on the letter sent to each team just prior to last season (remember this was the new commissioner who had hammered lots of players for misconduct by that time) especially to remind them of the prohibition on video was explicit and beyond misunderstanding. Any suggestion that a man that devises a complicated nfl defense each week changing it to address the strengths of the opponent (ask peyton manning how smart bill belichick is), consistently shows near-genius in his deployment of personnel, was unable to read and understand this letter is beyond disingenuous. The contention suggestion that the entire pats organization, including their lawyers, thought what they were doing was permitted by the letter is simply not believable. The commissioner and belichick both know this, as does everyone without a dog in the race. I think goodell decided the best course for the league (and himself) was to: 1) publicly embarrass the pats and penalize them without actually significantly harming them but privately threatening them with the death penalty for any future incidents, 2) minimize the extent of the violations (and destroy any evidence to the contrary) so that the rest of the league doesn't feel jobbed, and those pesky politicians in washington aren't awakened by the calls of their constituents, 3.) keep the money mill working full time, with the extra benefits of making a key ally of kraft (the leagues most powerful owner) while simultaneously putting belichick in his place, and above all, keep the money mill running.... now, i may be just a little skeptical, but in my estimation the nfl has had three months since matt walsh and his tapes became known, and i have a strong feeling that all three of the strategies above, and probably an infusion of money have again been brought to bear and i expect an arrangement with walsh was done prior the the league meetings allowing belechick and kraft to explicitly deny the rams taping to all who would listen, and the commish to say if there's anything else, i'm going to revisit the penalties. conveniently enough, things ended just as the best interest of the league and the commish would have hoped. we now have eight innocuous tapes that we already know about from the notes the pats submitted, and the commish will tell us that its all cleaned up and we can go on to the next season. and keep the money mill running....... but maybe i'm just a skeptic...... bill belichick is one of the brightest minds in sports, if not the country. the wording on the letter sent to each team just prior to last season (remember this was the new commissioner who had hammered lots of players for misconduct by that time) especially to remind them of the prohibition on video was explicit and beyond misunderstanding.

Any suggestion that a man that devises a complicated nfl defense each week changing it to address the strengths of the opponent (ask peyton manning how smart bill belichick is), consistently shows near-genius in his deployment of personnel, was unable to read and understand this letter is beyond disingenuous. The contention suggestion that the entire pats organization, including their lawyers, thought what they were doing was permitted by the letter is simply not believable.

The commissioner and belichick both know this, as does everyone without a dog in the race. I think goodell decided the best course for the league (and himself) was to:

1) publicly embarrass the pats and penalize them without actually significantly harming them but privately threatening them with the death penalty for any future incidents,

2) minimize the extent of the violations (and destroy any evidence to the contrary) so that the rest of the league doesn’t feel jobbed, and those pesky politicians in washington aren’t awakened by the calls of their constituents,

3.) keep the money mill working full time, with the extra benefits of making a key ally of kraft (the leagues most powerful owner) while simultaneously putting belichick in his place, and above all, keep the money mill running….

now, i may be just a little skeptical, but in my estimation the nfl has had three months since matt walsh and his tapes became known, and i have a strong feeling that all three of the strategies above, and probably an infusion of money have again been brought to bear and i expect an arrangement with walsh was done prior the the league meetings allowing belechick and kraft to explicitly deny the rams taping to all who would listen, and the commish to say if there’s anything else, i’m going to revisit the penalties.

conveniently enough, things ended just as the best interest of the league and the commish would have hoped. we now have eight innocuous tapes that we already know about from the notes the pats submitted, and the commish will tell us that its all cleaned up and we can go on to the next season. and keep the money mill running…….

but maybe i’m just a skeptic……

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]]> By: Bob S. http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26470 Bob S. Thu, 08 May 2008 21:44:59 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26470 i thought goodell said patriots guaranteed him there were no more tapes. now months later 8 of who knows how many are still out there suddenly appear and goodell seems to forget that belichick said he turned over all these tapes? there is no way goodell should be the one in charge of this investigation. no way - this is an outright coverup and goodell is part of it. i thought goodell said patriots guaranteed him there were no more tapes. now months later 8 of who knows how many are still out there suddenly appear and goodell seems to forget that belichick said he turned over all these tapes? there is no way goodell should be the one in charge of this investigation. no way - this is an outright coverup and goodell is part of it.

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]]> By: chickenwing http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26446 chickenwing Thu, 08 May 2008 20:50:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26446 Are you guys serious, or just Patriots fans? Why would Walsh hold out for immunity and be so hesitant to talk if all he had was this? Someone got to him and either paid him off or sufficiently scared him enough to not talk. There is no way this is all he had. Enough people have said that the Pats taped the walk-through and have played around with audio signals to know its true. This is the NFL sweeping the situation under the rug. Are you guys serious, or just Patriots fans? Why would Walsh hold out for immunity and be so hesitant to talk if all he had was this? Someone got to him and either paid him off or sufficiently scared him enough to not talk. There is no way this is all he had. Enough people have said that the Pats taped the walk-through and have played around with audio signals to know its true. This is the NFL sweeping the situation under the rug.

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]]> By: yankeemofo http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26439 yankeemofo Thu, 08 May 2008 20:35:12 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26439 Every day that goes by proves Matt Walsh(and Pats haters) to be the tools that they are. Grasping at straws, hoping beyond hope that your team REALLY had a shot at beating the Pats last year(and others), all along it was a level playing field. Face it, non-Pats fans, your team DOES suck AND you can't use "cheating" as the reason why! Every day that goes by proves Matt Walsh(and Pats haters) to be the tools that they are. Grasping at straws, hoping beyond hope that your team REALLY had a shot at beating the Pats last year(and others), all along it was a level playing field.

Face it, non-Pats fans, your team DOES suck AND you can’t use “cheating” as the reason why!

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]]> By: Sporin http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26413 Sporin Thu, 08 May 2008 19:28:21 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26413 So how will the Herald react to this? Will they stick to their guns or issue a retraction? What sort of "penalty" might Tomase have to pay? So how will the Herald react to this? Will they stick to their guns or issue a retraction? What sort of “penalty” might Tomase have to pay?

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]]> By: wafoster http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26409 wafoster Thu, 08 May 2008 19:19:34 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26409 It is what it is...nothing! Drag an entire region of the country through the mud because you got fired! Thanks Matt, funny how you conspired to break the report the day of the Super Bowl. Mr. Walsh you are a miserable disgruntled former employee. Don't even think about coming back to New England. Everyone knows what you look like! Loser! It is what it is…nothing! Drag an entire region of the country through the mud because you got fired! Thanks Matt, funny how you conspired to break the report the day of the Super Bowl. Mr. Walsh you are a miserable disgruntled former employee. Don’t even think about coming back to New England. Everyone knows what you look like! Loser!

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]]> By: TCLARK http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26397 TCLARK Thu, 08 May 2008 18:58:45 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26397 WOW only 10 posts? The haters did't read what they had hoped to read. Had the news gone the other way, there would be 60-100 posts. WOW only 10 posts? The haters did’t read what they had hoped to read.
Had the news gone the other way, there would be 60-100 posts.

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]]> By: bradyswingman http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26389 bradyswingman Thu, 08 May 2008 18:52:11 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26389 Now that the Spector/Walsh carnival has come to an end its time for shoddy journalists to pay the piper: John Tomasse and Mike Fish, please step forward with your sources that stated the Patriots taped the Rams walk through or step down from your positions as hack journalists. Now that the Spector/Walsh carnival has come to an end its time for shoddy journalists to pay the piper: John Tomasse and Mike Fish, please step forward with your sources that stated the Patriots taped the Rams walk through or step down from your positions as hack journalists.

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]]> By: wock http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26384 wock Thu, 08 May 2008 18:42:59 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26384 The New England Patriots = COMMON THIEVES. From the ball boys, to the video staff, to the players, to the coaches, to the front office, all the way up to triple chinned Robert f'n Craft.... Common Thieves All. The New England Patriots = COMMON THIEVES.

From the ball boys, to the video staff, to the players, to the coaches, to the front office, all the way up to triple chinned Robert f’n Craft…. Common Thieves All.

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]]> By: ken13 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26370 ken13 Thu, 08 May 2008 18:20:56 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26370 Will all you Patriots "haters" please get over yourselves already. This issue is over.....done. Matt Walsh sat there for 103 days and let the world think he had something more than he had...so he could get back at the Patriots for firing him. He leaked a false story and then when he had to produce the so called "proof"...he didn't. The so called "walkthrough tape" does not exist...never did. Will all you Patriots “haters” please get over yourselves already. This issue is over…..done. Matt Walsh sat there for 103 days and let the world think he had something more than he had…so he could get back at the Patriots for firing him. He leaked a false story and then when he had to produce the so called “proof”…he didn’t. The so called “walkthrough tape” does not exist…never did.

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]]> By: promichael http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26360 promichael Thu, 08 May 2008 18:11:50 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26360 I thought all along that the Walsh allegations were all about him attempting to market or leverage what he knew into a pay day. The fact that a high priced Washington D.C. law firm would represent Walsh Pro bono publico indicates to me how fixated society is on bringing down the high and mighty. I thought all along that the Walsh allegations were all
about him attempting to market or leverage what he knew
into a pay day. The fact that a high priced Washington
D.C. law firm would represent Walsh Pro bono publico
indicates to me how fixated society is on bringing down
the high and mighty.

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]]> By: VeggieBurgher http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26317 VeggieBurgher Thu, 08 May 2008 17:09:00 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26317 I don't see why you conclude that his 8 tapes are "nothing new." Had we heard before that the Pats taped the AFC Championship Game signals? It's amazing to hear the smear campaign against Walsh. If he was in this to get famous, don't you think he would have come forward before when Spygate first erupted? And don't you think he'd have handled the PR a lot better if his goal was to sell a book? The fact that the Pats kicked ass last year does not show that they did not benefit from the taping -- they didn't have Moss or Welker or other dominant offense the years they won. No need to cheat with those guys dominating. As for why Walsh kept the tapes, it's sorta silly to speculate. Maybe he knew it was wrong and wanted proof to avoid a he said-she said if it ever came up. Or more likely maybe he just loves football and thinks the tapes are cool. I still have a tape of a Cleveland-Denver playoff game from the late 80s and I hate both those teams. All of us who love football would have loved to have a job like Walsh's and would have gladly kept anything we could get our hands on, so people should stop judging Walsh based simply on the fact on whether they love or hate the Patriots. I don’t see why you conclude that his 8 tapes are “nothing new.” Had we heard before that the Pats taped the AFC Championship Game signals?

It’s amazing to hear the smear campaign against Walsh. If he was in this to get famous, don’t you think he would have come forward before when Spygate first erupted? And don’t you think he’d have handled the PR a lot better if his goal was to sell a book?

The fact that the Pats kicked ass last year does not show that they did not benefit from the taping — they didn’t have Moss or Welker or other dominant offense the years they won. No need to cheat with those guys dominating.

As for why Walsh kept the tapes, it’s sorta silly to speculate. Maybe he knew it was wrong and wanted proof to avoid a he said-she said if it ever came up. Or more likely maybe he just loves football and thinks the tapes are cool. I still have a tape of a Cleveland-Denver playoff game from the late 80s and I hate both those teams. All of us who love football would have loved to have a job like Walsh’s and would have gladly kept anything we could get our hands on, so people should stop judging Walsh based simply on the fact on whether they love or hate the Patriots.

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]]> By: Skew http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26303 Skew Thu, 08 May 2008 16:49:29 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26303 Anyone who believe BB excuse is an idiot. Anyone who believe BB excuse is an idiot.

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]]> By: JoeSixPack http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26281 JoeSixPack Thu, 08 May 2008 16:21:12 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26281 The NFL acknowledged that the rule needed clarification because they clarified it in 2006. Kindof tough to punish someone for violating a rule in 2002 that didn't exist until 2006. And as far as why the Patriots didn't hand over the tapes to Goodell? Well its clear that Walsh stole them - so how could they? Why wouldn't the Patriots keep multiple copies of tapes going back to 2000? Well, seeing as stealing signals is LEGAL and condoned by the league (which coaches know but most fans do not) coaches are always changing signals making old tapes of little or no value. If anything the reported editing of the tapes actually ABSOLVES the Patriots, as its clear that these were not rapidly filmed, edited and used on gameday - they were edited to include other footage of actual legally filmed plays and clearly were used for post-game analysis - consistent with what Belichick had stated, though few will believe him to this day. Now that this seems resolved I'll be waiting to see if every fan who has been so righteous about Belichick stretching this rule feels the same way about their teams doing the same thing when it comes to tampering and injury reports. We know from Lee Groscup's article that the Bears WERE actually spying on walkthroughs and filming practices. We know the Dolphins and Shula lost a 1st round pick for tampering, and we know that the Broncos twice blatantly violated the salary cap and were fined much more than the Patriots were in this case. http://www.thesportgallery.com/sport-stories/1967aug-nflspy.html Are the Patriots held to a different standard than other teams by fans, the media and even US Senators? The NFL acknowledged that the rule needed clarification because they clarified it in 2006.

Kindof tough to punish someone for violating a rule in 2002 that didn’t exist until 2006. And as far as why the Patriots didn’t hand over the tapes to Goodell? Well its clear that Walsh stole them - so how could they?

Why wouldn’t the Patriots keep multiple copies of tapes going back to 2000? Well, seeing as stealing signals is LEGAL and condoned by the league (which coaches know but most fans do not) coaches are always changing signals making old tapes of little or no value.

If anything the reported editing of the tapes actually ABSOLVES the Patriots, as its clear that these were not rapidly filmed, edited and used on gameday - they were edited to include other footage of actual legally filmed plays and clearly were used for post-game analysis - consistent with what Belichick had stated, though few will believe him to this day.

Now that this seems resolved I’ll be waiting to see if every fan who has been so righteous about Belichick stretching this rule feels the same way about their teams doing the same thing when it comes to tampering and injury reports.

We know from Lee Groscup’s article that the Bears WERE actually spying on walkthroughs and filming practices. We know the Dolphins and Shula lost a 1st round pick for tampering, and we know that the Broncos twice blatantly violated the salary cap and were fined much more than the Patriots were in this case.

http://www.thesportgallery.com/sport-stories/1967aug-nflspy.html

Are the Patriots held to a different standard than other teams by fans, the media and even US Senators?

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]]> By: Funny Pats Fans http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26278 Funny Pats Fans Thu, 08 May 2008 16:18:06 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26278 Pats fans are so cute. They'll do anything to paint Walsh as a guy who acted independently, including cheesy attempts to use some pics as proof he "stole" things. On top of the tired old ploy of portraying anyone who even discusses the PROVEN Patriots cheating as "haters." Tsk tsk. The Patriots cheated. And nothing Walsh has or doesn't have changes that simple fact. Pats fans are so cute. They’ll do anything to paint Walsh as a guy who acted independently, including cheesy attempts to use some pics as proof he “stole” things. On top of the tired old ploy of portraying anyone who even discusses the PROVEN Patriots cheating as “haters.” Tsk tsk.

The Patriots cheated. And nothing Walsh has or doesn’t have changes that simple fact.

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]]> By: wolf14771 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26271 wolf14771 Thu, 08 May 2008 16:12:12 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26271 We cant move on until Walsh speaks? He's been given permission to lie his ass off. He can say anything he wants and not get in trouble for it. You'd be an idiot to think that it wasn't Walsh who said that he had a tape of the walkthough. NOW! he doesn't have it. HUGE SURPRISE! Little Matt can now go talk to Roger and Arlen and say all the "dirt" that he has and enjoy the 15 minuets he has. No matter what he says it's meaningless because he's already lied about what he had. We cant move on until Walsh speaks? He’s been given permission to lie his ass off. He can say anything he wants and not get in trouble for it. You’d be an idiot to think that it wasn’t Walsh who said that he had a tape of the walkthough. NOW! he doesn’t have it. HUGE SURPRISE!

Little Matt can now go talk to Roger and Arlen and say all the “dirt” that he has and enjoy the 15 minuets he has. No matter what he says it’s meaningless because he’s already lied about what he had.

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]]> By: Walrus http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26262 Walrus Thu, 08 May 2008 16:05:08 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26262 "Judging by what every coach in the league who has spoke up about this, and by the fact that AFTER the Pats had all this taken away from them they won their next 18 games…. I’d say not much of an advantage. Thanks for keeping up though." What I don't understand about this line of thinking is, the Pats bend/break the rules to get a higher quality of information over the course of 7 years. They put together a knowledge base developed around information than they shouldn't have. They stop gathering the information, but they have learned as a result of having studied the information. Do people think the Pats forgot what they have learned or chose to purposefully did not take advantage? Most comments from taped teams I have read addressed the short term impact, the impact of taping 1 game had on the next. The longer a program like this runs, the more effective it should become. “Judging by what every coach in the league who has spoke up about this, and by the fact that AFTER the Pats had all this taken away from them they won their next 18 games…. I’d say not much of an advantage. Thanks for keeping up though.”

What I don’t understand about this line of thinking is, the Pats bend/break the rules to get a higher quality of information over the course of 7 years. They put together a knowledge base developed around information than they shouldn’t have. They stop gathering the information, but they have learned as a result of having studied the information.

Do people think the Pats forgot what they have learned or chose to purposefully did not take advantage?

Most comments from taped teams I have read addressed the short term impact, the impact of taping 1 game had on the next. The longer a program like this runs, the more effective it should become.

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]]> By: zayets http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26247 zayets Thu, 08 May 2008 15:50:16 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26247 Is this a joke? The tapes provide no new evidence of cheating, but they confirmed that the Patriots have been cheating since 2002. That's all right because we punished them for the same kind of cheating in 2007 and we don't see that it would be fair to punish them twice for same the cheating no matter the duration. What message does that send to the fans, the other 31 teams, Vegas gamblers etc. This scandal is just as bad as the White Sox throwing the Series in 1918. We are in a different era. The NFL wants to sweep this under the rug. The Patriots sure did reap the rewards of their deceit. 3 SB, 5 division crowns, and 4 SB appearances. Cheaters do win. Is this a joke? The tapes provide no new evidence of cheating, but they confirmed that the Patriots have been cheating since 2002. That’s all right because we punished them for the same kind of cheating in 2007 and we don’t see that it would be fair to punish
them twice for same the cheating no matter the duration.

What message does that send to the fans, the other 31 teams, Vegas gamblers etc. This scandal is just as bad as the White Sox throwing the Series in 1918. We are in a different era. The NFL wants to sweep this under the rug.

The Patriots sure did reap the rewards of their deceit. 3 SB, 5 division crowns, and 4 SB appearances. Cheaters do win.

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]]> By: racer-x http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26238 racer-x Thu, 08 May 2008 15:39:09 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26238 The whole, we took away the tapes and they still kicked ass argument is lame. a] They didn't give their entire library to goodell. b] Even if they did, I am sure they dropped all of the info into a database so that it is able to be queried as opposed to having to go rewatch the tapes. Kraft buyback of the incriminating tape is worth more than the book deal. The whole, we took away the tapes and they still kicked ass argument is lame.

a] They didn’t give their entire library to goodell.

b] Even if they did, I am sure they dropped all of the info into a database so that it is able to be queried as opposed to having to go rewatch the tapes.

Kraft buyback of the incriminating tape is worth more than the book deal.

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]]> By: Blackbeard http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26235 Blackbeard Thu, 08 May 2008 15:37:07 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26235 Or the NFL paid him off and will destroy any new evidence and try and sweep this mess under the rug. Or the NFL paid him off and will destroy any new evidence and try and sweep this mess under the rug.

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]]> By: PFTiswhatitis http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26228 PFTiswhatitis Thu, 08 May 2008 15:33:10 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26228 "Mr. Walsh has never claimed to have a tape of the walkthrough," Levy told The New York Times. "Mr. Walsh has never been the source of any of the media speculation about such a tape. Mr. Walsh was not the source for the Feb. 2 Boston Herald article." How come he says this NOW after the story has been out there for 6 months and never denied. The Patriots have had to live with this BS all this time. Levy, Walsh, Tomasi should all be publicly flogged. “Mr. Walsh has never claimed to have a tape of the walkthrough,” Levy told The New York Times. “Mr. Walsh has never been the source of any of the media speculation about such a tape. Mr. Walsh was not the source for the Feb. 2 Boston Herald article.”

How come he says this NOW after the story has been out there for 6 months and never denied. The Patriots have had to live with this BS all this time. Levy, Walsh, Tomasi should all be publicly flogged.

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]]> By: kate773 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26227 kate773 Thu, 08 May 2008 15:33:02 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26227 From nfl.com: "Mr. Walsh has never claimed to have a tape of the walkthrough," Levy told The New York Times. "Mr. Walsh has never been the source of any of the media speculation about such a tape. Mr. Walsh was not the source for the Feb. 2 Boston Herald, article." That's from Walsh's attorney. i.e. - there will be no new accusations of taping the Rams, or anyone else's walkthrough. Get over it Mike. Stop speculating and trying to keep this going. From nfl.com: “Mr. Walsh has never claimed to have a tape of the walkthrough,” Levy told The New York Times. “Mr. Walsh has never been the source of any of the media speculation about such a tape. Mr. Walsh was not the source for the Feb. 2 Boston Herald, article.”

That’s from Walsh’s attorney. i.e. - there will be no new accusations of taping the Rams, or anyone else’s walkthrough. Get over it Mike. Stop speculating and trying to keep this going.

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]]> By: spyboots http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26219 spyboots Thu, 08 May 2008 15:26:24 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26219 Well, when you have a guy like Ernie Adams on your payroll with a photographic memory, who can quickly look at the tapes and digest them, I'd say that yes, the tapes gave them a huge advantage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntw7G7enxEk&feature=related http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams Well, when you have a guy like Ernie Adams on your payroll with a photographic memory, who can quickly look at the tapes and digest them, I’d say that yes, the tapes gave them a huge advantage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntw7G7enxEk&feature=related

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams

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]]> By: mrmagoo http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26193 mrmagoo Thu, 08 May 2008 14:48:28 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26193 He has video of Belichick sacrificing a goat on a black altar. He has video of Belichick sacrificing a goat on a black altar.

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]]> By: PFTiswhatitis http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26191 PFTiswhatitis Thu, 08 May 2008 14:47:17 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26191 How does he and Tomasi get off without having actual tapes of the Rams Sb walk through after the report in the Boston Herald the day before the SB? Why did Levy go to such length to defend Walsh? Someone needs to be accountable. Oh and Florio, you appear to be the only one that can't let this go. I'm sure that after next week you will continue with this one, as long as there is a drop of blood left to squeeze out of it. How does he and Tomasi get off without having actual tapes of the Rams Sb walk through after the report in the Boston Herald the day before the SB? Why did Levy go to such length to defend Walsh? Someone needs to be accountable.
Oh and Florio, you appear to be the only one that can’t let this go. I’m sure that after next week you will continue with this one, as long as there is a drop of blood left to squeeze out of it.

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]]> By: GR365 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26187 GR365 Thu, 08 May 2008 14:38:25 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26187 Well, finally! This guy has nothing "new", it only took over a hundred days for this guy's Lawyer to say, " Mr. Walsh wasn't the "source" of the story...BS! No way, Thomase would put his rep on the line? Somebody was the source! I still think it was Walsh...I'm telling you folks this guy is full of himself! Why break the story right before the SB 42? All year, even after an undefeated regular season. Several other accomplishments, most TD's, highest points scored during the regular season! I feel ripped off as a Pats fan! Not because they lost the SB, they can get back and win it soon! From the US Gov., the media and Pat haters across the world. I think it's time for Goodell to stand up for the Patriots! Put an end to the story and let's concentrate on Football! Individuals ie..King, Easterbrooke etal. made as much hay from this story! I remember King coming on the air on WEEI and couldn't put together a cojent explanation of what happened. All he could say is thier is a cover-up! No evidence, just rumors, unsubstanciated drivel. This is nothing more than advanced scouting for the next meeting! It's no differint than a team showing up a week early and providing information. It's time to move on!!! Well, finally! This guy has nothing “new”, it only took over a hundred days for this guy’s Lawyer to say, ” Mr. Walsh wasn’t the “source” of the story…BS! No way, Thomase would put his rep on the line? Somebody was the source! I still think it was Walsh…I’m telling you folks this guy is full of himself!
Why break the story right before the SB 42? All year, even after an undefeated regular season. Several other accomplishments, most TD’s, highest points scored during the regular season! I feel ripped off as a Pats fan! Not because they lost the SB, they can get back and win it soon!
From the US Gov., the media and Pat haters across the world. I think it’s time for Goodell to stand up for the Patriots! Put an end to the story and let’s concentrate on Football! Individuals ie..King, Easterbrooke etal. made as much hay from this story! I remember King coming on the air on WEEI and couldn’t put together a cojent explanation of what happened. All he could say is thier is a cover-up! No evidence, just rumors, unsubstanciated drivel.
This is nothing more than advanced scouting for the next meeting! It’s no differint than a team showing up a week early and providing information. It’s time to move on!!!

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]]> By: Matt http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26183 Matt Thu, 08 May 2008 14:30:41 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26183 Maybe I've just become too cynical after reading PFT for so long, but... What if the material Walsh turned over was more damning to the Patriots? What if this material really did exist on these tapes, but the league decided to keep it quiet becuase of the backlash that would surely exist in everything the Patriots have done since 2000. During both Spygate episodes last season, every commentor was suggesting how much damage the league would sustain if the Pats actions were found to be rampant among other teams. The credibility of the league could be in jeopardy. With the multi-billion dollar enterprise that the NFL has become, why would they risk losing even a small part of that haul by allowing any evidence to come up to suggest any black-eyes or achievements that could be called into question. Or you can take Aiello's comments at face value and there really is nothing new to add. Maybe I’ve just become too cynical after reading PFT for so long, but…

What if the material Walsh turned over was more damning to the Patriots? What if this material really did exist on these tapes, but the league decided to keep it quiet becuase of the backlash that would surely exist in everything the Patriots have done since 2000. During both Spygate episodes last season, every commentor was suggesting how much damage the league would sustain if the Pats actions were found to be rampant among other teams. The credibility of the league could be in jeopardy.

With the multi-billion dollar enterprise that the NFL has become, why would they risk losing even a small part of that haul by allowing any evidence to come up to suggest any black-eyes or achievements that could be called into question.

Or you can take Aiello’s comments at face value and there really is nothing new to add.

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]]> By: TerpEagle http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26179 TerpEagle Thu, 08 May 2008 14:28:10 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26179 Fail Cat ... what happened in that 19th game? Fail Cat … what happened in that 19th game?

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]]> By: bledsoe9mm9 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26178 bledsoe9mm9 Thu, 08 May 2008 14:27:03 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26178 this whole mess is the league and roger goodell , he is too reactionary , he overreacted when the first word of the taping came out because of pressure from the new york media . then when word of walsh first arose the league was only admitting to 6 tapes , so walsh was actually a story at the time , now the taping goes all the way back to belichick's first year with the pats , so walsh has no new evidence . good job Roger . this whole mess is the league and roger goodell , he is too reactionary , he overreacted when the first word of the taping came out because of pressure from the new york media . then when word of walsh first arose the league was only admitting to 6 tapes , so walsh was actually a story at the time , now the taping goes all the way back to belichick’s first year with the pats , so walsh has no new evidence . good job Roger .

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]]> By: Jeremiah W http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26176 Jeremiah W Thu, 08 May 2008 14:24:21 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26176 They cheated so ong and so blatantly the NFL's first reaction was to suppress it. The only reason they would destroy the evidence in my opinio9n is because it was so damaging to not only everything NE acomplished under BB, but also to the entire leauge. I think they were able to instanly translate audibles and defensive signals, giving them a huge advantage. They always had the perfect gameplan, but it turns out it all could have just been good spies. Why have they been so afraid of what may be on Walsh's tapes and trying to shut this guy up ever since his name came up? I just don't believe anything they say on the subject at this point. The actions speak louder than any lawyer prepared and reviewed words. They cheated so ong and so blatantly the NFL’s first reaction was to suppress it. The only reason they would destroy the evidence in my opinio9n is because it was so damaging to not only everything NE acomplished under BB, but also to the entire leauge.

I think they were able to instanly translate audibles and defensive signals, giving them a huge advantage. They always had the perfect gameplan, but it turns out it all could have just been good spies.

Why have they been so afraid of what may be on Walsh’s tapes and trying to shut this guy up ever since his name came up?

I just don’t believe anything they say on the subject at this point. The actions speak louder than any lawyer prepared and reviewed words.

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]]> By: elgranderojo79 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26174 elgranderojo79 Thu, 08 May 2008 14:23:22 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26174 This whole thing still smells and looks like a rat. I find it very strange that it is in the best interests of the NFL and the Patriots for there not to be any new evidence and lo and behold... Walsh shows up with "nothing new". Perhaps there is nothing new; or perhaps Walsh has a new Swiss bank account set up by Uncle Rob and Cousin Roger. This whole thing still smells and looks like a rat. I find it very strange that it is in the best interests of the NFL and the Patriots for there not to be any new evidence and lo and behold… Walsh shows up with “nothing new”. Perhaps there is nothing new; or perhaps Walsh has a new Swiss bank account set up by Uncle Rob and Cousin Roger.

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]]> By: seatofmypants http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26172 seatofmypants Thu, 08 May 2008 14:20:32 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26172 First off, I want to acknoweldge that I am a NY Giants fan. As far as the Patriots goes, who cares about the taping. It is just bitter Senators and Jets fans who are making this non issue an issue. If 18-0 did not prove that they did not need to tape, then nothing will. People like to have excuses for why the lose or fail. It is easier to blame others (they are cheating), then perhaps acknowledge that they were inferior on that day. Let's face it, every team in the NFL looks for whatever advantage they can get. For those of you in the NY Area, Parcells, and others used to be convinced that other teams had spies staying at the Meadowlands Sheraton in order to watch practice. This may be the reason that the Giants now practice in a bubble outside of the stadium. Remember one thing. It is not enough to know what your opponent is going to do. You still have to stop them. First off, I want to acknoweldge that I am a NY Giants fan.

As far as the Patriots goes, who cares about the taping. It is just bitter Senators and Jets fans who are making this non issue an issue.

If 18-0 did not prove that they did not need to tape, then nothing will. People like to have excuses for why the lose or fail. It is easier to blame others (they are cheating), then perhaps acknowledge that they were inferior on that day.

Let’s face it, every team in the NFL looks for whatever advantage they can get.

For those of you in the NY Area, Parcells, and others used to be convinced that other teams had spies staying at the Meadowlands Sheraton in order to watch practice. This may be the reason that the Giants now practice in a bubble outside of the stadium.

Remember one thing. It is not enough to know what your opponent is going to do. You still have to stop them.

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]]> By: Vox Veritas http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26171 Vox Veritas Thu, 08 May 2008 14:19:04 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26171 It's disingenuous to accuse every team of doing it just because the Patriots did it. Get real. Might as well accuse every team of cheating the salary cap because the 49ers did it. Pats fans, please... the issue is not stealing signals. There's no rule against that and I'm sure that every team tries it when they have the opportunity. There's a rule against using electronic means to do it, and that's why the Pats got busted for it. And don't try to minimize it by equating it with holding or whatever. Officials are on the scene to levy penalties for on-field infractions of the rules of play. What the Pats did essentially was engage in organized front office cheating against their business partners, and they're lucky that their business partners want to get as far away from this cheating scandal as quickly as possible, so as to protect the overall integrity of the league. Did you REALLY think those tapes were destroyed quickly so they wouldn't be leaked out? Again, get real. The entire league feared what those tapes would do to the integrity of the league. It’s disingenuous to accuse every team of doing it just because the Patriots did it. Get real. Might as well accuse every team of cheating the salary cap because the 49ers did it.

Pats fans, please… the issue is not stealing signals. There’s no rule against that and I’m sure that every team tries it when they have the opportunity. There’s a rule against using electronic means to do it, and that’s why the Pats got busted for it. And don’t try to minimize it by equating it with holding or whatever. Officials are on the scene to levy penalties for on-field infractions of the rules of play. What the Pats did essentially was engage in organized front office cheating against their business partners, and they’re lucky that their business partners want to get as far away from this cheating scandal as quickly as possible, so as to protect the overall integrity of the league. Did you REALLY think those tapes were destroyed quickly so they wouldn’t be leaked out? Again, get real. The entire league feared what those tapes would do to the integrity of the league.

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]]> By: Gonethesun http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26169 Gonethesun Thu, 08 May 2008 14:16:09 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26169 It has been routinely discussed that teams video tape or use binoculars to view the sidelines for defensive signals and other scouting of opponents. The Patriots rule violation comes from video taping from the sidelines, in a location where tapes would be accessible by coaching staffs during the game. If anything, the fact that the videotapes show editing to match hand signals to plays and formations reinforces what Belichick has stated since the beginning - that the tapes were not used on game days and were part of their scouting efforts. It was on a list of probably 10 or 20 things that the Patriots do to scout opponents. I still say that this was a missed business opportunity for someone - they could have bought a couple of tickets for every game in the league, dispatched a couple of employs with video cameras and taped each sideline. Said tapes could be resold to teams for future reference and would not be in violation of any NFL rule. In fact, it is rumored that the Dolphins did something similar to acquire audibles given by Tom Brady, in preparation for a game. In my opinion, the only reason more teams haven't been busted for such practices is that the NFL hasn't investigated any other teams. If you don't look, you won't find it. The ire that Mangenius has drawn in NFL quarters for violating unspoken coaches rules about such practices is no coincidence. Other teams could have been busted in similar fashion - but NFL coaches don't typically handle it that way. As has been reported elsewhere, the practice had been to ask the video cameraman to leave, when caught by an opposing team. It has been routinely discussed that teams video tape or use binoculars to view the sidelines for defensive signals and other scouting of opponents. The Patriots rule violation comes from video taping from the sidelines, in a location where tapes would be accessible by coaching staffs during the game.

If anything, the fact that the videotapes show editing to match hand signals to plays and formations reinforces what Belichick has stated since the beginning - that the tapes were not used on game days and were part of their scouting efforts. It was on a list of probably 10 or 20 things that the Patriots do to scout opponents.

I still say that this was a missed business opportunity for someone - they could have bought a couple of tickets for every game in the league, dispatched a couple of employs with video cameras and taped each sideline. Said tapes could be resold to teams for future reference and would not be in violation of any NFL rule.

In fact, it is rumored that the Dolphins did something similar to acquire audibles given by Tom Brady, in preparation for a game.

In my opinion, the only reason more teams haven’t been busted for such practices is that the NFL hasn’t investigated any other teams. If you don’t look, you won’t find it. The ire that Mangenius has drawn in NFL quarters for violating unspoken coaches rules about such practices is no coincidence. Other teams could have been busted in similar fashion - but NFL coaches don’t typically handle it that way. As has been reported elsewhere, the practice had been to ask the video cameraman to leave, when caught by an opposing team.

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]]> By: Wrathchild http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26166 Wrathchild Thu, 08 May 2008 14:13:22 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26166 Basically all Walsh had was more evidence of the patsies cheating. Since it was consistent with what the league already knew, it was just more of the same. Now, wasn't that expected? Did anyone actually believe Walsh would have tape of Belichick asking the film crew to tape the opposing team's signals, or telling his coaches to make sure they used the stolen signals to their full advantage? C'mon. This was totally expected. Also, anything that Walsh says is going to be he said, she said. Basically all Walsh had was more evidence of the patsies cheating. Since it was consistent with what the league already knew, it was just more of the same.

Now, wasn’t that expected? Did anyone actually believe Walsh would have tape of Belichick asking the film crew to tape the opposing team’s signals, or telling his coaches to make sure they used the stolen signals to their full advantage? C’mon.

This was totally expected. Also, anything that Walsh says is going to be he said, she said.

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]]> By: hugh jorgen http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26154 hugh jorgen Thu, 08 May 2008 13:55:04 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26154 I cheated on my wife and am now going through a divorce. My defense? I misinterpreted my wedding vows. Pats fans are shameless. First it was "we taped one time and got caught." 2nd, "everybody cheats!" So your coach, the genious who outcoaches the rest of the league, knows the ins and outs of the game, misinterpreted the rules? Not buying what you're selling. Sorry. Your "dynasty" is tainted. I cheated on my wife and am now going through a divorce. My defense?

I misinterpreted my wedding vows.

Pats fans are shameless. First it was “we taped one time and got caught.” 2nd, “everybody cheats!”

So your coach, the genious who outcoaches the rest of the league, knows the ins and outs of the game, misinterpreted the rules? Not buying what you’re selling.

Sorry. Your “dynasty” is tainted.

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]]> By: Dr. Tobias Funke http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26150 Dr. Tobias Funke Thu, 08 May 2008 13:48:31 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26150 Things are going to get a lot worse for John Tomase. I noticed they took the comment section down from the Boston Herald. Nothing worse than angry massholes in the right. (see Concord and Lexington).. Things are going to get a lot worse for John Tomase. I noticed they took the comment section down from the Boston Herald. Nothing worse than angry massholes in the right. (see Concord and Lexington)..

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]]> By: josereyes0 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26148 josereyes0 Thu, 08 May 2008 13:47:28 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26148 alansaysyo: Nobody ever said he didn't know that. The thing is he sort of tried to outsmart himself. Essentially the rule stated that you cannot use technology to record signals sent by opposing teams during a game. He believed the 'during the game' portion literally meant using the videotape on the same game. Obviously he tried to finagle around it by using it literally since it is sort of up to interpretation and figured if he ever got caught, the rule taken literally is up to interpretation and he could get away with it. He was wrong and obviously he and the team paid for it. alansaysyo: Nobody ever said he didn’t know that. The thing is he sort of tried to outsmart himself. Essentially the rule stated that you cannot use technology to record signals sent by opposing teams during a game. He believed the ‘during the game’ portion literally meant using the videotape on the same game. Obviously he tried to finagle around it by using it literally since it is sort of up to interpretation and figured if he ever got caught, the rule taken literally is up to interpretation and he could get away with it. He was wrong and obviously he and the team paid for it.

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]]> By: kellyb9 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26147 kellyb9 Thu, 08 May 2008 13:47:20 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26147 I have to be honest - coming from the context of a masters in computer science - BB could have taped these coordinators from just about anywhere. Barring the fact that its totally legal to hire an entire brigade of lip readers and assistants to watch them, this doesnt prove anything to me. The only thing it proves to me is that the Patriots are bad at cheating - NOT that the rest of the league isn't CURRENTLY engaged it as well (even your team). I have to be honest - coming from the context of a masters in computer science - BB could have taped these coordinators from just about anywhere. Barring the fact that its totally legal to hire an entire brigade of lip readers and assistants to watch them, this doesnt prove anything to me. The only thing it proves to me is that the Patriots are bad at cheating - NOT that the rest of the league isn’t CURRENTLY engaged it as well (even your team).

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]]> By: dashoe http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26143 dashoe Thu, 08 May 2008 13:43:14 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26143 HA! Nice spin Florio. Spygate will no more be over than WaterGate is over. It will forever be the legacy of the Bill Belichick, Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. They're cheaters and will forever be known as cheaters. As for what Walsh has or doesn't have, it really doesn't matter. WalshGate wasn't about clearing the Pats of any wrongdoing. It was about how badly the Pats cheated. We shall see, it's still hard to imagine that Walsh would go through this much torture if he had absolutely no evidence. It doesn't make sense. BUT! in the end, the Pats are still cheaters. HA! Nice spin Florio. Spygate will no more be over than WaterGate is over. It will forever be the legacy of the Bill Belichick, Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. They’re cheaters and will forever be known as cheaters.

As for what Walsh has or doesn’t have, it really doesn’t matter. WalshGate wasn’t about clearing the Pats of any wrongdoing. It was about how badly the Pats cheated.

We shall see, it’s still hard to imagine that Walsh would go through this much torture if he had absolutely no evidence. It doesn’t make sense.

BUT! in the end, the Pats are still cheaters.

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]]> By: Vern http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26142 Vern Thu, 08 May 2008 13:34:41 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26142 Walsh's comment about "things some people haven't taken responsibility for" was made BEFORE it was publicly known that Belichick had admitted to taping as far back as 2000. Walsh, like many at ESPN and elsewhere, just assumed BB had only been nailed for the Jets game and maybe 6 other recent games in 06 and 07. Goodell's theory of keeping the investigation details private might actually be vindicated here. It ferreted out more truth by not giving insider details to the public so that others could change their stories to fit. Walsh’s comment about “things some people haven’t taken responsibility for” was made BEFORE it was publicly known that Belichick had admitted to taping as far back as 2000.

Walsh, like many at ESPN and elsewhere, just assumed BB had only been nailed for the Jets game and maybe 6 other recent games in 06 and 07.

Goodell’s theory of keeping the investigation details private might actually be vindicated here. It ferreted out more truth by not giving insider details to the public so that others could change their stories to fit.

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]]> By: RobJH http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26138 RobJH Thu, 08 May 2008 13:30:11 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26138 So it's not news that the Pats cheated in the 2003 AFC Championship against the Steelers? We knew this all along? IMHO this makes the Rams SuperBowl walkthrough story irrelevant since they cheated to get there in the first place. How can there be no additional punishment? I guess Goodell takes care of his boys (Robert Kraft). So it’s not news that the Pats cheated in the 2003 AFC Championship against the Steelers? We knew this all along? IMHO this makes the Rams SuperBowl walkthrough story irrelevant since they cheated to get there in the first place. How can there be no additional punishment? I guess Goodell takes care of his boys (Robert Kraft).

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]]> By: clintdogg http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26134 clintdogg Thu, 08 May 2008 13:23:11 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/08/league-says-walsh-tapes-provide-no-new-evidence-of-cheating/#comment-26134 The best part about all of this is that he stole these tapes in 2000-2002. The league didn't issue a memo to clarify this rule and other teams didn't stop doing this until 2006. I just hope now we can move on and get over this nonsense. The best part about all of this is that he stole these tapes in 2000-2002. The league didn’t issue a memo to clarify this rule and other teams didn’t stop doing this until 2006.

I just hope now we can move on and get over this nonsense.

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