Comments on: A LOOK AT HARRISON’S GUN http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:42:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Kurt M. Weber http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-25299 Kurt M. Weber Wed, 07 May 2008 02:59:03 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-25299 The practical ability to exercise a right is not a necessary precondition for the possession of that right. It is the mere fact that we possess those rights regardless of our practical ability to exercise them that justifies us to revolt if the government attempts to deny us the practical ability to exercise them. The practical ability to exercise a right is not a necessary precondition for the possession of that right.

It is the mere fact that we possess those rights regardless of our practical ability to exercise them that justifies us to revolt if the government attempts to deny us the practical ability to exercise them.

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]]> By: Wink and the Gun http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-25143 Wink and the Gun Tue, 06 May 2008 21:29:48 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-25143 "Bradybunch, a Passionate Fan, says: May 5th, 2008 at 7:50 pm A .22 cal bullet can kill as good as a .50 cal bullet. If you want to argue that, I’ll take the .22 cal you take the .50 cal, and I get to shoot first." No, it can't kill as well as a .50 cal - bmg or otherwise. A .22 can kill, yes, no question, if you hit them in the right spot, which requires a greater deal of accuracy. The .50 cal pistol ammo will put a pretty good sized hole in you wherever it hits you, and significantly increase the chances of death. The .50 bmg round will literally remove limbs with a single shot. Further, we had enough of a military to defeat the reigning world superpower in the Revolution, and again in the war of 1812. Schools are "gun free" zones - yet why would somebody who is planning on murdering as many people as he can worry about disobeying a firearms law? You cannot solve the problem of people breaking the law by enacting more laws, because they will simply continue to ignore them. It is foolish to think that you can protect honest citizens by removing their ability to protect themselves. “Bradybunch, a Passionate Fan, says:
May 5th, 2008 at 7:50 pm

A .22 cal bullet can kill as good as a .50 cal bullet. If you want to argue that, I’ll take the .22 cal you take the .50 cal, and I get to shoot first.”

No, it can’t kill as well as a .50 cal - bmg or otherwise. A .22 can kill, yes, no question, if you hit them in the right spot, which requires a greater deal of accuracy. The .50 cal pistol ammo will put a pretty good sized hole in you wherever it hits you, and significantly increase the chances of death. The .50 bmg round will literally remove limbs with a single shot.

Further, we had enough of a military to defeat the reigning world superpower in the Revolution, and again in the war of 1812.

Schools are “gun free” zones - yet why would somebody who is planning on murdering as many people as he can worry about disobeying a firearms law? You cannot solve the problem of people breaking the law by enacting more laws, because they will simply continue to ignore them. It is foolish to think that you can protect honest citizens by removing their ability to protect themselves.

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]]> By: PackBjammin http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-25120 PackBjammin Tue, 06 May 2008 20:58:33 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-25120 You are thinking as a decent human being! I wish that Americans were defined as having common human rights and being protected by natural law. Fortunately, many of those privileges are currently granted. Unfortunately, those privileges can be revoked at will. I wish you well if you were to assert those rights against the State, the Crown, etc. In other words, the corporations that own you. You are thinking as a decent human being!

I wish that Americans were defined as having common human rights and being protected by natural law. Fortunately, many of those privileges are currently granted. Unfortunately, those privileges can be revoked at will. I wish you well if you were to assert those rights against the State, the Crown, etc. In other words, the corporations that own you.

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]]> By: Kurt M. Weber http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-25024 Kurt M. Weber Tue, 06 May 2008 18:50:25 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-25024 You're assuming rights are a consequence of citizenship. They're not. They're an inherent part of being a human being; therefore, the status of the local government is irrelevant to the matter. You’re assuming rights are a consequence of citizenship.

They’re not.

They’re an inherent part of being a human being; therefore, the status of the local government is irrelevant to the matter.

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]]> By: PackBjammin http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24889 PackBjammin Tue, 06 May 2008 16:21:31 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24889 I would like to contribute some clarification, and broaden the discussion. First, as with any weapon, how powerful the weapon is matters less than whether the strike connects. That requires training, which requires cultural infrastructure, discipline, mental capacity, etc. Emptying your clip while running down the street with a handgun doesn't indicate that. Second, the Constitution hasn't governed these united States since the US went into bankruptcy (research when). Since then, the US has been in recievorship (research under whom) under maritime law. Unless you are very well versed and have obtained and maintained your status, you are not a citizen (or person) with rights, you are a subject/slave with privileges. Those privileges, including weapon ownership, can be revoked at will. Sorry - this history and status was set long ago. Finally, anyone who lives near criminal (relative) sub-culture (not race) neighborhoods are reminded what kind of weapons their neighbors own every holiday or other special occassion. It is foolish to abstract militant danger to Afghanistan. Members of more law abiding sub-cultures with the means and common sense should do what is necessary to protect the lives and property they are privileged to possess from criminal individuals. You could also argue that they have a duty, or at minimum a benefit, to also defend other neighbors of similar sub-cultures as their own. Either way, this is one of the simmering and active militant aspects of cultural war. Not liking and/or ignoring these dynamics doesn't make them go away. As the US dollar loses value, without corresponding increases in handouts to dysfunctional government dependendent communities, the militant conflict between dependent communities and working communities will increase as dependent communities attempt to acquire by force. I regret the grim history, grim current status, and grim future. Hopefully the Elite will change their minds, and have the ability to change course. Unfortunately, projecting the historical pattern would seem to indicate otherwise. I would like to contribute some clarification, and broaden the discussion.

First, as with any weapon, how powerful the weapon is matters less than whether the strike connects. That requires training, which requires cultural infrastructure, discipline, mental capacity, etc. Emptying your clip while running down the street with a handgun doesn’t indicate that.

Second, the Constitution hasn’t governed these united States since the US went into bankruptcy (research when). Since then, the US has been in recievorship (research under whom) under maritime law. Unless you are very well versed and have obtained and maintained your status, you are not a citizen (or person) with rights, you are a subject/slave with privileges. Those privileges, including weapon ownership, can be revoked at will. Sorry - this history and status was set long ago.

Finally, anyone who lives near criminal (relative) sub-culture (not race) neighborhoods are reminded what kind of weapons their neighbors own every holiday or other special occassion. It is foolish to abstract militant danger to Afghanistan. Members of more law abiding sub-cultures with the means and common sense should do what is necessary to protect the lives and property they are privileged to possess from criminal individuals. You could also argue that they have a duty, or at minimum a benefit, to also defend other neighbors of similar sub-cultures as their own. Either way, this is one of the simmering and active militant aspects of cultural war. Not liking and/or ignoring these dynamics doesn’t make them go away.

As the US dollar loses value, without corresponding increases in handouts to dysfunctional government dependendent communities, the militant conflict between dependent communities and working communities will increase as dependent communities attempt to acquire by force.

I regret the grim history, grim current status, and grim future. Hopefully the Elite will change their minds, and have the ability to change course. Unfortunately, projecting the historical pattern would seem to indicate otherwise.

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]]> By: Streetlight http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24886 Streetlight Tue, 06 May 2008 16:17:40 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24886 This is really flat-out ignorant reporting on the part of this site and the sportswriters. In the first place, Fabrique Nationale (FN) is a Belgium-owned US company - the 5.7 firearm is manufactured in the US. (Columbia, S.C.) Secondly, the weapon can chamber a number of variants - one a military variant for penetration of body-amour. Its most unlikely anyone in this mess had possession of anything that sophisticated. Now I'm the last one to defend street animals, which I have a special dislike for - having seen my city degenerated to lawlessness. (I'm a Philadelphian who grew up during WWII around 3rd & Spruce Streets, I left in 1955 - ASAF and SAC) But fair is fair. There is absolutely nothing sinister about this gun. Its a small caliber self defense weapon - period. This is really flat-out ignorant reporting on the part of this site and the sportswriters. In the first place, Fabrique Nationale (FN) is a Belgium-owned US company - the 5.7 firearm is manufactured in the US. (Columbia, S.C.) Secondly, the weapon can chamber a number of variants - one a military variant for penetration of body-amour. Its most unlikely anyone in this mess had possession of anything that sophisticated.
Now I’m the last one to defend street animals, which I have a special dislike for - having seen my city degenerated to lawlessness. (I’m a Philadelphian who grew up during WWII around 3rd & Spruce Streets, I left in 1955 - ASAF and SAC) But fair is fair. There is absolutely nothing sinister about this gun. Its a small caliber self defense weapon - period.

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]]> By: the christopher hundreds http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24719 the christopher hundreds Tue, 06 May 2008 06:22:06 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24719 The whole point of weapons ownership is to be able to revolt against the government. I agree with this somewhere in my brain, but the logical conclusion is private citizens owning nuclear weapons or aircraft carriers. Any type of handgun/rifle is ultimately useless against the force that all but the most rinky-dink of swat teams can bring to bear, not to mention the actual military that will be brought to quash any rebellion. Once you agree that nuclear arms aren't protected by the second amendment, we're down to talking about the degree of restriction. Anyone who wants to comment on firearms should really shoot a few rounds before shooting off his mouth. It's unbelievable the number of people who have no concept of what "automatic" and "semi-automatic" mean and couldn't differentiate something the media calls an "assault" rifle from a shotgun. I've tried soy milk and tofu, the least you can do is empty a clip or two at a shooting range. The whole point of weapons ownership is to be able to revolt against the government.

I agree with this somewhere in my brain, but the logical conclusion is private citizens owning nuclear weapons or aircraft carriers. Any type of handgun/rifle is ultimately useless against the force that all but the most rinky-dink of swat teams can bring to bear, not to mention the actual military that will be brought to quash any rebellion. Once you agree that nuclear arms aren’t protected by the second amendment, we’re down to talking about the degree of restriction.

Anyone who wants to comment on firearms should really shoot a few rounds before shooting off his mouth. It’s unbelievable the number of people who have no concept of what “automatic” and “semi-automatic” mean and couldn’t differentiate something the media calls an “assault” rifle from a shotgun. I’ve tried soy milk and tofu, the least you can do is empty a clip or two at a shooting range.

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]]> By: mskrs http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24710 mskrs Tue, 06 May 2008 04:32:20 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24710 To all of you who are saying that Marvin (or whoever the shooter was) must be a terrible shot - ever consider that the shooter didn't want to kill the victim, but just scare him or "send a message"? He ended up nipping a hand - which may be the actual reason why he (or she) is a terrible shot (the shooter failed by hitting, not missing). To all of you who are saying that Marvin (or whoever the shooter was) must be a terrible shot - ever consider that the shooter didn’t want to kill the victim, but just scare him or “send a message”? He ended up nipping a hand - which may be the actual reason why he (or she) is a terrible shot (the shooter failed by hitting, not missing).

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]]> By: zaijian http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24703 zaijian Tue, 06 May 2008 03:49:09 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24703 To all who made the comment that "the 2nd amendment was written at a time when all they had were muskets" - I say to you: The 1st amendment was written at a time when all they had were printing presses. Using that logic, should we also ban tv news, blogs and the internet? ----------------- To all who made the comment that "people who own guns are compensating for something" - I say to you: Yes, I own guns because I AM compensating for something - I am compensating for the fact that my d!ck doesn't shoot bullets. To all who made the comment that “the 2nd amendment was written at a time when all they had were muskets” -

I say to you: The 1st amendment was written at a time when all they had were printing presses.

Using that logic, should we also ban tv news, blogs and the internet?

—————–

To all who made the comment that “people who own guns are compensating for something” -

I say to you: Yes, I own guns because I AM compensating for something - I am compensating for the fact that my d!ck doesn’t shoot bullets.

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]]> By: Kurt M. Weber http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24691 Kurt M. Weber Tue, 06 May 2008 02:41:23 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24691 The whole point of weapons ownership is to be able to revolt against the government. In order to do that, we NEED to actually have effective firepower. This is why ANY restriction on private ownership of weapons is patently absurd and illegitimate. The whole point of weapons ownership is to be able to revolt against the government.

In order to do that, we NEED to actually have effective firepower.

This is why ANY restriction on private ownership of weapons is patently absurd and illegitimate.

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]]> By: daplague http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24676 daplague Tue, 06 May 2008 02:13:14 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24676 Wow, there is so much disinformation here it's like watching CNN. Like many have pointed out, it's 5.7 mm, not .50 cal, the ammo available domestically is ballistic tip and not armor piercing, and the 2nd amendment isn't for hunting or protection from rattlesnakes. That being said, he misused it and should be punished. AGAIN, HE misused it and deserves to be punished. Don't blame the implement, blame the wielder. Wow, there is so much disinformation here it’s like watching CNN. Like many have pointed out, it’s 5.7 mm, not .50 cal, the ammo available domestically is ballistic tip and not armor piercing, and the 2nd amendment isn’t for hunting or protection from rattlesnakes. That being said, he misused it and should be punished. AGAIN, HE misused it and deserves to be punished. Don’t blame the implement, blame the wielder.

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]]> By: Probot http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24666 Probot Tue, 06 May 2008 01:41:10 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24666 Gee, no wonder why Marvin is so protective on information about himself. Eagle's beat writer Ashley Fox in Sunday's Phila Inquirer (www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20080504_Ashley_Fox___Harrison_remains_an_enigma.html) wrote a piece on "Silent Marv" and his loner ways on and off the field. The column ends with this quote from Silent Marv: "Everyone has their opinions already," Harrison said in 2006. "There's nothing I would volunteer about me. People who really know me know who I am. If they don't know me, they just assume whatever they want." And people sure are now. It's alarming to find out someone, either an NFL player or ordinary Joe, needs to have this type of firearm in his possession. Especially after the weekend murder of another Phila Police Officer by way of an assault rifle. Gee, no wonder why Marvin is so protective on information about himself. Eagle’s beat writer Ashley Fox in Sunday’s Phila Inquirer (www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20080504_Ashley_Fox___Harrison_remains_an_enigma.html) wrote a piece on “Silent Marv” and his loner ways on and off the field. The column ends with this quote from Silent Marv: “Everyone has their opinions already,” Harrison said in 2006. “There’s nothing I would volunteer about me. People who really know me know who I am. If they don’t know me, they just assume whatever they want.” And people sure are now.

It’s alarming to find out someone, either an NFL player or ordinary Joe, needs to have this type of firearm in his possession. Especially after the weekend murder of another Phila Police Officer by way of an assault rifle.

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]]> By: Blacksunshyne http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24665 Blacksunshyne Tue, 06 May 2008 01:40:59 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24665 I love how the media portrays the FN 5.7 as a "custom made belgian handgun". Fact is anyone can go buy one at any FN dealer, the same as any other handgun can be purchased. The fact that Harrison is a high profile athlete has 0 bearing on owning this pistol. The other interesting fact is that while there is a "armor piercing" round for the 5.7mm it is not imported to the US. The ATF ruled years ago that any cartridge chambered in a pistol cannot defeat body armor or it becomes illegal. Look at what happened to steel core 7.62x39, zips right through kevlar. OK as a rifle round, once chambered in a pistol it became illegal. I don't really care about Harrison one way or another. It gets really irritating to watch the misinformation that is thrown about concerning firearms. I love how the media portrays the FN 5.7 as a “custom made belgian handgun”. Fact is anyone can go buy one at any FN dealer, the same as any other handgun can be purchased. The fact that Harrison is a high profile athlete has 0 bearing on owning this pistol. The other interesting fact is that while there is a “armor piercing” round for the 5.7mm it is not imported to the US. The ATF ruled years ago that any cartridge chambered in a pistol cannot defeat body armor or it becomes illegal. Look at what happened to steel core 7.62×39, zips right through kevlar. OK as a rifle round, once chambered in a pistol it became illegal. I don’t really care about Harrison one way or another. It gets really irritating to watch the misinformation that is thrown about concerning firearms.

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]]> By: Favre2012 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24629 Favre2012 Tue, 06 May 2008 00:18:10 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24629 yeah, cause ONLY police officers have bulletproof vests. What about high-tech criminals with helmets and body armor? You can't protect your car wash with a 9mm! What people should be worried about is athletes keeping guns in buckets at car washes. The rest (an American with a gun) at least makes perfect sense. yeah, cause ONLY police officers have bulletproof vests. What about high-tech criminals with helmets and body armor? You can’t protect your car wash with a 9mm!

What people should be worried about is athletes keeping guns in buckets at car washes. The rest (an American with a gun) at least makes perfect sense.

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]]> By: Bradybunch http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24615 Bradybunch Mon, 05 May 2008 23:50:17 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24615 A .22 cal bullet can kill as good as a .50 cal bullet. If you want to argue that, I'll take the .22 cal you take the .50 cal, and I get to shoot first. I don't think I'll ever understand why people are so facinated with pistols. The Right to bear arms was created at a time when we had no military power. ZERO! Not until post WWII (1940's for you non history readers)did America have a consistant military power during times of peace. I really wish guide lines where more defined at that time. I am not for abolishing fire arms but, Pistols and assult rifles that can be converted/consealed to cause wide spred damage in public places (Such as high schools, college campases, workplace ect) Are becoming so common place that we are becoming ammune to hearing about them. It's most likely too late to do anything about it know. They seem to be everywhere. But with these SERIOUS PROBLEMS I am amazed at the passion pro gun people refuse to negotiate a flawed aspect to the constitusion. There has to be a happy MEDIUM that would be accepted by both Pro guns and innocent gun fearing Americans." Can't we all just get along?" A .22 cal bullet can kill as good as a .50 cal bullet. If you want to argue that, I’ll take the .22 cal you take the .50 cal, and I get to shoot first.
I don’t think I’ll ever understand why people are so facinated with pistols. The Right to bear arms was created at a time when we had no military power. ZERO! Not until post WWII (1940’s for you non history readers)did America have a consistant military power during times of peace. I really wish guide lines where more defined at that time. I am not for abolishing fire arms but, Pistols and assult rifles that can be converted/consealed to cause wide spred damage in public places (Such as high schools, college campases, workplace ect) Are becoming so common place that we are becoming ammune to hearing about them. It’s most likely too late to do anything about it know. They seem to be everywhere. But with these SERIOUS PROBLEMS I am amazed at the passion pro gun people refuse to negotiate a flawed aspect to the constitusion. There has to be a happy MEDIUM that would be accepted by both Pro guns and innocent gun fearing Americans.” Can’t we all just get along?”

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]]> By: wock http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24606 wock Mon, 05 May 2008 23:29:04 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24606 Kevin from Philly, a Passionate Fan, says: but not in the middle of a city that has had almost 1000 people shot to death in the last three years, guns are definitely NOT cool. What Kevin? You think those guns just jumped off the shelves and started shooting people on their own??? Guns don't kill people... people kill people. And the only people who follow gun laws are law abiding citizens already. That probably accounts for a BIG percentage of that 1000 you mentioned too. Why is it okay to own a gun to shoot defenseless rattlesnakes... but in a city known to have had 1000 murders in the last three years, its not cool???? Do you understand exactly how stupid you sound????? At all??????? I think I can handle the rattlesnakes with a boot heel, and a pocketknife... but if I'm stuck in North Philly, and liable to be confronted by armed assailants - thats EXACTLY where a gun for personal defense makes the most sense. Kevin from Philly, a Passionate Fan, says: If you second amendment crybabies need to live in a place where everybody packs heat, move to Pakistan, hunt down Bin Laden and make yourselves useful for once in your miserable lives. It's being handled by United States armed forces (most of whom definitely support the 2nd amendment to the constitution), and under whose protection you spout your ignorant drivel. Kevin from Philly, a Passionate Fan, says: Honestly, the idea that the “guvment” needs to be kept in check by a bunch of gun totin’ hicks with beer guts and pickup trucks belongs in a Chuck Norris movie - or maybe Adam Sandler, since it’s an unfunny comedy. Ha ha ha! Try a history book, and look under American revolution smart@ss. Kevin from Philly, a Passionate Fan, says: but not in the middle of a city that has had almost 1000 people shot to death in the last three years, guns are definitely NOT cool.

What Kevin? You think those guns just jumped off the shelves and started shooting people on their own??? Guns don’t kill people… people kill people. And the only people who follow gun laws are law abiding citizens already. That probably accounts for a BIG percentage of that 1000 you mentioned too.

Why is it okay to own a gun to shoot defenseless rattlesnakes… but in a city known to have had 1000 murders in the last three years, its not cool???? Do you understand exactly how stupid you sound????? At all??????? I think I can handle the rattlesnakes with a boot heel, and a pocketknife… but if I’m stuck in North Philly, and liable to be confronted by armed assailants - thats EXACTLY where a gun for personal defense makes the most sense.

Kevin from Philly, a Passionate Fan, says: If you second amendment crybabies need to live in a place where everybody packs heat, move to Pakistan, hunt down Bin Laden and make yourselves useful for once in your miserable lives.

It’s being handled by United States armed forces (most of whom definitely support the 2nd amendment to the constitution), and under whose protection you spout your ignorant drivel.

Kevin from Philly, a Passionate Fan, says: Honestly, the idea that the “guvment” needs to be kept in check by a bunch of gun totin’ hicks with beer guts and pickup trucks belongs in a Chuck Norris movie - or maybe Adam Sandler, since it’s an unfunny comedy.

Ha ha ha! Try a history book, and look under American revolution smart@ss.

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]]> By: dagodfather http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24599 dagodfather Mon, 05 May 2008 23:13:55 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24599 Couple of things; 1) The 2nd ammendment was passed during a time when the only guns that were around were muskits. 2) The reason it was passed was not for hunting or killing your neighbor. It was passed because you needed to defend yourself against the British and "savages". By "savages" I mean, a group of people who were kicked off their land by the white people. 3) Just because armor piercing bullets are illegal to own, does not mean drug dealers and what not do not have them. 4) Uncommon to popular belief, guns do not kill. It's the finger that pulls the trigger. 5) The only thing appealing the 2nd ammendment is going to accomplish is that the law abiding citizens will be armed with knives/baseball bats, while the person breaking into their house is armed with a 9mm. 6) Whoever was the one that said "guns are cool", please do not reproduce. Couple of things;

1) The 2nd ammendment was passed during a time when the only guns that were around were muskits.

2) The reason it was passed was not for hunting or killing your neighbor. It was passed because you needed to defend yourself against the British and “savages”. By “savages” I mean, a group of people who were kicked off their land by the white people.

3) Just because armor piercing bullets are illegal to own, does not mean drug dealers and what not do not have them.

4) Uncommon to popular belief, guns do not kill. It’s the finger that pulls the trigger.

5) The only thing appealing the 2nd ammendment is going to accomplish is that the law abiding citizens will be armed with knives/baseball bats, while the person breaking into their house is armed with a 9mm.

6) Whoever was the one that said “guns are cool”, please do not reproduce.

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]]> By: cadpipe http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24579 cadpipe Mon, 05 May 2008 22:10:30 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24579 zaijian had it right when he said "The FN five-seven handgun shoots 5.7mm ammunition, which is also used in several of FN’s rifles. It should be noted that just about ANY ammunition fired out of a rifle will be capable of defeating body armor. However, most rounds fired out of a handgun usually lack the velocity and power to defeat body armor, and those rounds that are capable (Armor-Piercing) are usually regulated or restricted to law-enforcement or military only. So, I wouldn’t worry about the fact that the FN advertises that it can defeat body armor, as the only people who can obtain the proper ammo are probably the same people only wearing body armor." and "BTW, a 5.7mm round is equivalent in diameter to a .22 caliber round." ....the 5.7 rpound is basically a mini or short .223 round, and non police and military can only buy civilian/emasculated rounds. The gun actually looks cheap, mostly plastic, and feels that way too. BATF is very obsesed with keeping armor piercing rounds from getting to the public, they determined some rounds were sold that could penetrate some layers and visited the dealers to track down every round of it. It is not a .50 cal. and kevelar does not defeat knives. If you are going to act the fool with a gun you should not be allowed to own one, they are not toys! zaijian had it right when he said “The FN five-seven handgun shoots 5.7mm ammunition, which is also used in several of FN’s rifles. It should be noted that just about ANY ammunition fired out of a rifle will be capable of defeating body armor.

However, most rounds fired out of a handgun usually lack the velocity and power to defeat body armor, and those rounds that are capable (Armor-Piercing) are usually regulated or restricted to law-enforcement or military only.

So, I wouldn’t worry about the fact that the FN advertises that it can defeat body armor, as the only people who can obtain the proper ammo are probably the same people only wearing body armor.” and “BTW, a 5.7mm round is equivalent in diameter to a .22 caliber round.” ….the 5.7 rpound is basically a mini or short .223 round, and non police and military can only buy civilian/emasculated rounds. The gun actually looks cheap, mostly plastic, and feels that way too. BATF is very obsesed with keeping armor piercing rounds from getting to the public, they determined some rounds were sold that could penetrate some layers and visited the dealers to track down every round of it. It is not a .50 cal. and kevelar does not defeat knives. If you are going to act the fool with a gun you should not be allowed to own one, they are not toys!

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]]> By: PFT Planet Idiot http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24574 PFT Planet Idiot Mon, 05 May 2008 22:06:23 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24574 Not that I defend Harrison or his "alleged actions", but he could be a gun collector. Collectors of any type go after the finest and more pieces, so this could be the case. Of course if he is found guilty of these crimes, all of his weapons should be confiscated. Not that I defend Harrison or his “alleged actions”, but he could be a gun collector. Collectors of any type go after the finest and more pieces, so this could be the case.

Of course if he is found guilty of these crimes, all of his weapons should be confiscated.

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]]> By: thelou http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24569 thelou Mon, 05 May 2008 22:01:38 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24569 Anyone dogging on him owning this gun think Mr. Taylor would like to have had this gun 8 months back when four punks busted in his door? One shot would have taken care of all four thugs. Anyone dogging on him owning this gun think Mr. Taylor would like to have had this gun 8 months back when four punks busted in his door? One shot would have taken care of all four thugs.

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]]> By: Chiefslost http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24567 Chiefslost Mon, 05 May 2008 21:58:04 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24567 Harrison or whoever is responsible must be a terrible shot. The gun has a high hit probability feature which gives the weapon, when fired, extremely low recoil which results in virtually no muzzle jump. Seven casings were found and only one reportedly hit the target. Manning would have landed at least six of those seven. Harrison or whoever is responsible must be a terrible shot. The gun has a high hit probability feature which gives the weapon, when fired, extremely low recoil which results in virtually no muzzle jump. Seven casings were found and only one reportedly hit the target. Manning would have landed at least six of those seven.

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]]> By: skaybaltimore http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24565 skaybaltimore Mon, 05 May 2008 21:51:50 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24565 Wow. Sounds like Kevin from Philly got coal for X-mas. Wow. Sounds like Kevin from Philly got coal for X-mas.

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]]> By: MattAlkire http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24559 MattAlkire Mon, 05 May 2008 21:37:28 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24559 I just wonder what the hell he's doing in North Philly or why he'd open a bar there. I know he's a Roman Catholic High School guy, but couldn't you open it up on South Street or down in Old City Marvin? That thing is a hand cannon. Then again, I guess when you're rich you want the best of the best. I just wonder what the hell he’s doing in North Philly or why he’d open a bar there. I know he’s a Roman Catholic High School guy, but couldn’t you open it up on South Street or down in Old City Marvin? That thing is a hand cannon. Then again, I guess when you’re rich you want the best of the best.

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]]> By: Wink and the Gun http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24558 Wink and the Gun Mon, 05 May 2008 21:36:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24558 It's exactly because there are that many violent deaths that honest citizens (who aren't the ones out there shooting people) should be able to carry a firearm to protect themselves. Guns can be "cool" in the collecting or sport shooting sense, but carrying for protection is deadly serious, and a constitutional right. It’s exactly because there are that many violent deaths that honest citizens (who aren’t the ones out there shooting people) should be able to carry a firearm to protect themselves. Guns can be “cool” in the collecting or sport shooting sense, but carrying for protection is deadly serious, and a constitutional right.

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]]> By: Klier http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24538 Klier Mon, 05 May 2008 20:57:21 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24538 As others have noted the gun is not a .50 which is measured in inches but a 5.7 which is measered in mm, that is a big difference. Also, Since I have been thinking about purchasing a fn 57, I feel that it should be noted that the ammo that is capable of defeating balistic armour is illegal in the US. Only the military and law enforcement can purchase it. The ammo that is availble in the us is now several grades below what you are talking about. If you would like to see the gun watch "War" with Jet Li it is the gun that he is using. Also the 5.7 ammo is only used in the FN P90 and FN 5.7 at this time. As others have noted the gun is not a .50 which is measured in inches but a 5.7 which is measered in mm, that is a big difference. Also, Since I have been thinking about purchasing a fn 57, I feel that it should be noted that the ammo that is capable of defeating balistic armour is illegal in the US. Only the military and law enforcement can purchase it. The ammo that is availble in the us is now several grades below what you are talking about.

If you would like to see the gun watch “War” with Jet Li it is the gun that he is using.

Also the 5.7 ammo is only used in the FN P90 and FN 5.7 at this time.

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]]> By: Kevin from Philly http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24527 Kevin from Philly Mon, 05 May 2008 20:33:14 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24527 Let me clear up some things. The place in question is in Brewerytown (near the Philadelphia museum of Art) not North Philadelphia. That said, it is a little scary and I'd bet that the bad guys in the neighborhood DO wear body armor. Also, what media blackout? This is all over ESPN and CNN. Next, it IS legal to posess weapons in PA, but a handgun is required to be registered with the police in the city of Philadelphia. Now for my personal opinions: Guns are not "cool". Maybe in some part of the country where you have rattlesnakes or the only thing to eat is meat on the hoof, yeah, a gun might be a necessity - but not in the middle of a city that has had almost 1000 people shot to death in the last three years, guns are definitely NOT cool. If you second amendment crybabies need to live in a place where everybody packs heat, move to Pakistan, hunt down Bin Laden and make yourselves useful for once in your miserable lives. Honestly, the idea that the "guvment" needs to be kept in check by a bunch of gun totin' hicks with beer guts and pickup trucks belongs in a Chuck Norris movie - or maybe Adam Sandler, since it's an unfunny comedy. Let me clear up some things. The place in question is in Brewerytown (near the Philadelphia museum of Art) not North Philadelphia. That said, it is a little scary and I’d bet that the bad guys in the neighborhood DO wear body armor. Also, what media blackout? This is all over ESPN and CNN. Next, it IS legal to posess weapons in PA, but a handgun is required to be registered with the police in the city of Philadelphia.

Now for my personal opinions: Guns are not “cool”. Maybe in some part of the country where you have rattlesnakes or the only thing to eat is meat on the hoof, yeah, a gun might be a necessity - but not in the middle of a city that has had almost 1000 people shot to death in the last three years, guns are definitely NOT cool. If you second amendment crybabies need to live in a place where everybody packs heat, move to Pakistan, hunt down Bin Laden and make yourselves useful for once in your miserable lives. Honestly, the idea that the “guvment” needs to be kept in check by a bunch of gun totin’ hicks with beer guts and pickup trucks belongs in a Chuck Norris movie - or maybe Adam Sandler, since it’s an unfunny comedy.

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]]> By: Phinfan2006 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24524 Phinfan2006 Mon, 05 May 2008 20:26:44 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24524 From one gun lover to any other one out there...the only reason more people don't own guns that is because they can't afford them. I know I can't. Marvin obviously has the cash, and runs a business. If Marvin had a 50 cal. pistol on him, wouldn't that be just as bad? I doubt a Kevlar vest would do much good again that either. How about an AK or an M16, all non- auto models are legal, so the bottom line is "Who cares what he owns as long as it's not used in an illegal activity...RIGHT? But like others have said here...Kevlar vests don't stop knives...should he not have any knives either. Leave Marvin alone already! :) Peace Out! From one gun lover to any other one out there…the only reason more people don’t own guns that is because they can’t afford them. I know I can’t. Marvin obviously has the cash, and runs a business.

If Marvin had a 50 cal. pistol on him, wouldn’t that be just as bad? I doubt a Kevlar vest would do much good again that either. How about an AK or an M16, all non- auto models are legal, so the bottom line is “Who cares what he owns as long as it’s not used in an illegal activity…RIGHT?

But like others have said here…Kevlar vests don’t stop knives…should he not have any knives either.

Leave Marvin alone already! :)

Peace Out!

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]]> By: PhillyChef http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24520 PhillyChef Mon, 05 May 2008 20:17:49 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24520 Hey, to the guy that said a .50 Cal was similar to a .22, ah...not so much, check this link to see for yourself http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg/300px-Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg And, second here that guns aren't a "cool" thing to have here in Killadelphia. I'm not for banning them, and I hunt myself, but sometimes I swear that the NRA owns stock in Funeral Homes here in Philly-business is just too good for them. I can't buy a flipping 6-pack at 7-11, but I can buy as many handguns as I want and walk right out the door, then "lose" them or have them "stolen", and I don't even have to file a Police Report-yup, makes total sense to me. Hey, to the guy that said a .50 Cal was similar to a .22, ah…not so much, check this link to see for yourself http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg/300px-Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg

And, second here that guns aren’t a “cool” thing to have here in Killadelphia. I’m not for banning them, and I hunt myself, but sometimes I swear that the NRA owns stock in Funeral Homes here in Philly-business is just too good for them. I can’t buy a flipping 6-pack at 7-11, but I can buy as many handguns as I want and walk right out the door, then “lose” them or have them “stolen”, and I don’t even have to file a Police Report-yup, makes total sense to me.

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]]> By: bizurk http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24509 bizurk Mon, 05 May 2008 20:03:08 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24509 I'm also surprised that no comments have broached the implications to the Eagles receiving corps I’m also surprised that no comments have broached the implications to the Eagles receiving corps

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]]> By: bizurk http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24508 bizurk Mon, 05 May 2008 20:01:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24508 Wow, three pages on comments in 2 hours. I guess guns are still a pretty hot issue..... Guns are legal, and arguably necessary in some parts of Killadelphia (so can we chill on the bickering?). Also, just for housekeeping, this happened in the northern side of Fairmount. The location of the bar is between the more 'urban' neighborhood north of Girard and yuppie/old-Irish element of Fairmount. On the gritty side if you're from fly-over country, but by no means the lawless wasteland of "North Philadelphia." I just don't understand why anyone who has the intent to do harm and has $$, would choose to perform dirt in such a traceable way. It's easy, tell someone you trust to follow the offending party, set up an alibi, and don't use an exotic gun traceable to you. After a few weeks, you pay the shooter handsomely in cash, you catch a few more TDs and nobody messes with your club. Also, it was interesting to me that the 'victim' drove all the way out to Lankenau and used the 'random gunfire in West Philadelphia' excuse. Points to Harrison for finally proving how 'Philly' he really is, and points detracted from Roman Catholic for yet another dubious pro athlete story (see also Griffin, Eddie). Wow, three pages on comments in 2 hours. I guess guns are still a pretty hot issue…..

Guns are legal, and arguably necessary in some parts of Killadelphia (so can we chill on the bickering?). Also, just for housekeeping, this happened in the northern side of Fairmount. The location of the bar is between the more ‘urban’ neighborhood north of Girard and yuppie/old-Irish element of Fairmount. On the gritty side if you’re from fly-over country, but by no means the lawless wasteland of “North Philadelphia.”

I just don’t understand why anyone who has the intent to do harm and has $$, would choose to perform dirt in such a traceable way. It’s easy, tell someone you trust to follow the offending party, set up an alibi, and don’t use an exotic gun traceable to you. After a few weeks, you pay the shooter handsomely in cash, you catch a few more TDs and nobody messes with your club.

Also, it was interesting to me that the ‘victim’ drove all the way out to Lankenau and used the ‘random gunfire in West Philadelphia’ excuse.

Points to Harrison for finally proving how ‘Philly’ he really is, and points detracted from Roman Catholic for yet another dubious pro athlete story (see also Griffin, Eddie).

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]]> By: seatofmypants http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24507 seatofmypants Mon, 05 May 2008 19:58:24 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24507 A couple of thoughts.... 1) Anything is available, regardless of restrictions, if you are willing to pay the price. Who knows what typw of ammo Marvin Harrison has access to (or uses) 2) The second ammendment gives Americans the right to own a gun (or guns). Typically you have to have permits (which it appears that Marvin did have). However, (personally) I think that with such a right comes responsiblity. If he wants to own the gun - and follows the law, i have no problem with it. 3) There are two things i am concerned about in this case a) Did he discharge this weapon? If so, why did he have it on him? Why did he feel the need to discharge it in a public setting? The story seems to indicate that a car windshield was struck, possilby injuring a young girl. This put others at risk. b) If he did not discharge this weapon, how did someone else get a hold of it? Owning this type of firepower requires (morally) someone to keep it secure at all times. A couple of thoughts….

1) Anything is available, regardless of restrictions, if you are willing to pay the price. Who knows what typw of ammo Marvin Harrison has access to (or uses)

2) The second ammendment gives Americans the right to own a gun (or guns). Typically you have to have permits (which it appears that Marvin did have). However, (personally) I think that with such a right comes responsiblity. If he wants to own the gun - and follows the law, i have no problem with it.

3) There are two things i am concerned about in this case

a) Did he discharge this weapon? If so, why did he have it on him? Why did he feel the need to discharge it in a public setting? The story seems to indicate that a car windshield was struck, possilby injuring a young girl. This put others at risk.

b) If he did not discharge this weapon, how did someone else get a hold of it? Owning this type of firepower requires (morally) someone to keep it secure at all times.

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]]> By: smiley http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24506 smiley Mon, 05 May 2008 19:50:46 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24506 For all you dimwits that like to label "liberals" as anit-gun, I'm a liberal and you or our government will NEVER take my right to own a firearm. If I have to I'll start my own miltia "Smiley's Militia" and we'll be "well regulated" and fear for our safety. So take your political labeling and shove it up your FN 5.7MM. For all you dimwits that like to label “liberals” as anit-gun, I’m a liberal and you or our government will NEVER take my right to own a firearm. If I have to I’ll start my own miltia “Smiley’s Militia” and we’ll be “well regulated” and fear for our safety. So take your political labeling and shove it up your FN 5.7MM.

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]]> By: empty13 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24503 empty13 Mon, 05 May 2008 19:46:18 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24503 He has been pitched as a model citizen. Apparently he isnt, and the media isnt above covering its own ass. He has been pitched as a model citizen. Apparently he isnt, and the media isnt above covering its own ass.

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]]> By: gosox2673 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24502 gosox2673 Mon, 05 May 2008 19:46:05 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24502 "You think the language in the second amendment is clear enough? You know, about the right to bear arms." "Of course it's clear. Every American has the right to hang a pair of bear arms on their wall. How could that possibly be misconstrued?" --Our Fore Fathers “You think the language in the second amendment is clear enough? You know, about the right to bear arms.”

“Of course it’s clear. Every American has the right to hang a pair of bear arms on their wall. How could that possibly be misconstrued?”

–Our Fore Fathers

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]]> By: skaybaltimore http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24501 skaybaltimore Mon, 05 May 2008 19:45:33 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24501 Overview (of the FN FiveSeven) "Conventional sidearms usually use the 9 x 19 mm, .45 ACP and similar cartridges that are effective for stopping a hostile individual in ordinary circumstances. However, FN argues that if that individual is wearing a light Kevlar vest, these bullets will be stopped without causing lethal damage. Such body armor is currently in use with over 50% of the worlds armed forces. Law enforcement officers also need the ability to pierce body armor, as it is worn by an increasing number of criminals. FN claims that thanks to the use of their newly designed 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge, the Five-seveN is capable of piercing the older U.S. Army PASGT vest at 300 meters range, and a U.S. Army PASGT helmet at a range of 240 meters. [NOTE!!] >>> However, these penetration statistics are for the military SS190 cartridge. Other available cartridge variants are not armor-piercing, according to the BATFE. These cartridges are loaded with heavier, expanding projectiles driven at lower velocities." "The advantages of the pistol itself include its weight (the 5.7 mm round weighs half as much as a standard 9 mm round), its recoil (FN claims the 5.7 mm round produces roughly half the felt recoil of a 9 mm round), and its 20-round magazine, which holds significantly more ammunition than other pistols. Despite its magazine capacity, the Five-seveN is a light pistol, weighing 726 g (1.6 pounds) loaded. It is also reasonably compact." http://www.superpistols.com/#FNFiveseven Main points of interest: As has already been pointed out, the Kevlar-penetrating capacity of this gun is ONLY relevant when using special military-issued rounds, which are NOT available to the general public. The normal advantages listed for this gun (i.e. why someone might purchase this gun rather than another gun) have nothing to do with it's ability to penetrate body armor. Those advantaged include lighter weight, less recoil, 20 round capacity magazine, etc. If I can find this info in 5 minutes using Google, I think Freeman can -- and should have -- done his homework a lot better before coming out with his opinion-laced obviously biased piece. Overview (of the FN FiveSeven)

“Conventional sidearms usually use the 9 x 19 mm, .45 ACP and similar cartridges that are effective for stopping a hostile individual in ordinary circumstances. However, FN argues that if that individual is wearing a light Kevlar vest, these bullets will be stopped without causing lethal damage. Such body armor is currently in use with over 50% of the worlds armed forces. Law enforcement officers also need the ability to pierce body armor, as it is worn by an increasing number of criminals. FN claims that thanks to the use of their newly designed 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge, the Five-seveN is capable of piercing the older U.S. Army PASGT vest at 300 meters range, and a U.S. Army PASGT helmet at a range of 240 meters. [NOTE!!] >>> However, these penetration statistics are for the military SS190 cartridge. Other available cartridge variants are not armor-piercing, according to the BATFE. These cartridges are loaded with heavier, expanding projectiles driven at lower velocities.”

“The advantages of the pistol itself include its weight (the 5.7 mm round weighs half as much as a standard 9 mm round), its recoil (FN claims the 5.7 mm round produces roughly half the felt recoil of a 9 mm round), and its 20-round magazine, which holds significantly more ammunition than other pistols. Despite its magazine capacity, the Five-seveN is a light pistol, weighing 726 g (1.6 pounds) loaded. It is also reasonably compact.”

http://www.superpistols.com/#FNFiveseven

Main points of interest: As has already been pointed out, the Kevlar-penetrating capacity of this gun is ONLY relevant when using special military-issued rounds, which are NOT available to the general public.

The normal advantages listed for this gun (i.e. why someone might purchase this gun rather than another gun) have nothing to do with it’s ability to penetrate body armor. Those advantaged include lighter weight, less recoil, 20 round capacity magazine, etc.

If I can find this info in 5 minutes using Google, I think Freeman can — and should have — done his homework a lot better before coming out with his opinion-laced obviously biased piece.

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]]> By: zwilson http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24497 zwilson Mon, 05 May 2008 19:32:46 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24497 I was so blindsided by this whole Harrison mess. After reading the older stories, I guess I shouldn't have been. As to the gun controversy, the second amendment and relevant regulations (including NFL policy) indicate that it was lawful for him to own the gun. To me, the only relevance of the gun is the unique nature of it that helped to identify it as Harrison's. I was so blindsided by this whole Harrison mess. After reading the older stories, I guess I shouldn’t have been.

As to the gun controversy, the second amendment and relevant regulations (including NFL policy) indicate that it was lawful for him to own the gun. To me, the only relevance of the gun is the unique nature of it that helped to identify it as Harrison’s.

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]]> By: ydarbmot http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24493 ydarbmot Mon, 05 May 2008 19:25:08 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24493 There seems to be a tremendous media blackout on this story. If it was a Bengal or a Bear it would headling NBC news. For some reason the Colts have been this sacred cow. There seems to be a tremendous media blackout on this story. If it was a Bengal or a Bear it would headling NBC news. For some reason the Colts have been this sacred cow.

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]]> By: teetee http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24485 teetee Mon, 05 May 2008 19:16:36 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24485 @ John, sure its ok to OWN, POSSESS and CARRY in PA, but isn't the issue here is that the gun was fired several times in the direction of someone....? @ John, sure its ok to OWN, POSSESS and CARRY in PA, but isn’t the issue here is that the gun was fired several times in the direction of someone….?

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]]> By: Bud Grant http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24474 Bud Grant Mon, 05 May 2008 18:51:06 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24474 It's always the quiet ones. "He was a good neighbor, kept to himself, didn't bother anybody." Until... It’s always the quiet ones. “He was a good neighbor, kept to himself, didn’t bother anybody.” Until…

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]]> By: empty13 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24471 empty13 Mon, 05 May 2008 18:49:07 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24471 yes, the reason for the 2nd amendment isnt for hunting or sport, like so many politicians and sheeple think. and remember, a much higher percentage of the population hunted for food way back when. writers like michael belleisles are full of crap. the 2nd amendment is there to keep the gummint from getting too big for its britches. and one could credibly argue that it has been sorely underused. yes, the reason for the 2nd amendment isnt for hunting or sport, like so many politicians and sheeple think. and remember, a much higher percentage of the population hunted for food way back when. writers like michael belleisles are full of crap.

the 2nd amendment is there to keep the gummint from getting too big for its britches. and one could credibly argue that it has been sorely underused.

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]]> By: MrSalamander http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24470 MrSalamander Mon, 05 May 2008 18:45:16 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24470 Here's a thought: Marvin Harrison is a millionaire. Millionaires have a lot of weird crap. When you're rich, you can buy this sort of thing. He's a collector. Sorry but a .50 caliber, exotic firearm is not all that weird. No more weird than rich dudes putting bowling lanes in their homes... or Emmitt Smith having tile mosaic of himself - in Dallas Uniform - at the bottom of his pool. I mean, what's the bowling alley for? And what does a flat, child's coloring book version of yourself at the bottom of a pool communicate to the kids? Here’s a thought: Marvin Harrison is a millionaire. Millionaires have a lot of weird crap. When you’re rich, you can buy this sort of thing. He’s a collector. Sorry but a .50 caliber, exotic firearm is not all that weird. No more weird than rich dudes putting bowling lanes in their homes… or Emmitt Smith having tile mosaic of himself - in Dallas Uniform - at the bottom of his pool. I mean, what’s the bowling alley for? And what does a flat, child’s coloring book version of yourself at the bottom of a pool communicate to the kids?

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]]> By: cdf http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24468 cdf Mon, 05 May 2008 18:42:48 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24468 Pacman likes the Fabrique Nationale 5.7 firearm. It can pierce 48 layers of Kevlar, and 6 losers in a strip club. Pacman likes the Fabrique Nationale 5.7 firearm. It can pierce 48 layers of Kevlar, and 6 losers in a strip club.

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]]> By: skaybaltimore http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24467 skaybaltimore Mon, 05 May 2008 18:42:28 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24467 The real questions here: 1. Why would Mike Freeman of CBS question Harrison's "right" to own the gun to begin with? 2. Does it bother anyone that Freeman sensationalizes, distorts and propagandizes the "main reason" someone would own that gun? Just because the gun is advertised to penetrate body armor, it's quite a stretch to then assume it was Harrison's "main reason" for buying it. If Florio is any kind of lawyer, you'd think he'd know that much, wouldn't you? (Which raises another question: Why would Florio post such a lopsided piece if he didn't have some sort of agenda?) THOSE are the questions I find disturbing. And I don't even own a gun. But I do own a copy of the US Constitution. The real questions here:

1. Why would Mike Freeman of CBS question Harrison’s “right” to own the gun to begin with?

2. Does it bother anyone that Freeman sensationalizes, distorts and propagandizes the “main reason” someone would own that gun? Just because the gun is advertised to penetrate body armor, it’s quite a stretch to then assume it was Harrison’s “main reason” for buying it. If Florio is any kind of lawyer, you’d think he’d know that much, wouldn’t you? (Which raises another question: Why would Florio post such a lopsided piece if he didn’t have some sort of agenda?)

THOSE are the questions I find disturbing. And I don’t even own a gun. But I do own a copy of the US Constitution.

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]]> By: The Next Great NFL Receiver http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24466 The Next Great NFL Receiver Mon, 05 May 2008 18:40:04 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24466 The original report described Harrison's gun as one firing a .50 caliber (or 12.7mm) round. The FN Five-seveN fires a 5.7mm round, making it less than half the size of a .50 caliber round. The standard 9mm round, which is on the small end of the spectrum by handgun standards, is still larger than the 5.7mm. What makes the 5.7mm unique is it's length, making it more like a rifle round than one fired from a pistol. It is a very narrow round, allowing up to 20 to be loaded into a magazine. However, due to it's size (or lack thereof) it is not very powerful. It's a very specialized round that relies on high velocity rather than size to damage its target, a questionable approach that is best discussed in another comments section on another website. But regardless, there is a HUGE difference between a 5.7mm round and a .50 caliber round. Practically speaking, the two are completely opposite. Also, while military and law enforcement versions of the round (SS190) do have sufficient capability to penetrate body armor, all versions available to civilians (SS196, SS197) do not have such a capability. The 5.7x28mm is one of the most misunderstood types of ammunition, especially amongst the media, and thus we have reports of .50 caliber armor-piercing ammunition that is nothing but. Were Harrison to have fired an SS190 round, that would be a big deal. But that has not been established yet. The original report described Harrison’s gun as one firing a .50 caliber (or 12.7mm) round. The FN Five-seveN fires a 5.7mm round, making it less than half the size of a .50 caliber round. The standard 9mm round, which is on the small end of the spectrum by handgun standards, is still larger than the 5.7mm. What makes the 5.7mm unique is it’s length, making it more like a rifle round than one fired from a pistol. It is a very narrow round, allowing up to 20 to be loaded into a magazine. However, due to it’s size (or lack thereof) it is not very powerful. It’s a very specialized round that relies on high velocity rather than size to damage its target, a questionable approach that is best discussed in another comments section on another website. But regardless, there is a HUGE difference between a 5.7mm round and a .50 caliber round. Practically speaking, the two are completely opposite.

Also, while military and law enforcement versions of the round (SS190) do have sufficient capability to penetrate body armor, all versions available to civilians (SS196, SS197) do not have such a capability. The 5.7×28mm is one of the most misunderstood types of ammunition, especially amongst the media, and thus we have reports of .50 caliber armor-piercing ammunition that is nothing but. Were Harrison to have fired an SS190 round, that would be a big deal. But that has not been established yet.

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]]> By: aVanderlay http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24464 aVanderlay Mon, 05 May 2008 18:39:19 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24464 "High hit probability Extremely low recoil results in virtually no muzzle jump. The Five-seveN® pistol is easily controllable as it remains aligned on the target." Guess Marvin missed out another endorsement deal. “High hit probability

Extremely low recoil results in virtually no muzzle jump.
The Five-seveN® pistol is easily controllable as it remains aligned on the target.”

Guess Marvin missed out another endorsement deal.

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]]> By: Ditkas Cigar http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24463 Ditkas Cigar Mon, 05 May 2008 18:38:22 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24463 I am not a gun owner, I have never had the desire to own a gun. That being said, I can absolutely understand a person in Harrison's position owning a handgun for self-defense. If he chooses to purchase a rare high end handgun from Belgium for this purpose, that too is his choice. The problem comes in when you chase someone down a street and fire that rare high end handgun at a person 5 times .... I am not a gun owner, I have never had the desire to own a gun. That being said, I can absolutely understand a person in Harrison’s position owning a handgun for self-defense.

If he chooses to purchase a rare high end handgun from Belgium for this purpose, that too is his choice.

The problem comes in when you chase someone down a street and fire that rare high end handgun at a person 5 times ….

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]]> By: The Fun Bunch http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24460 The Fun Bunch Mon, 05 May 2008 18:33:47 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24460 Yeah, guns "frickin cool," but they're not economical. You could save a ton of cash and send the world the same message by buying a t-shirt that says "I have a small penis." Yeah, guns “frickin cool,” but they’re not economical. You could save a ton of cash and send the world the same message by buying a t-shirt that says “I have a small penis.”

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]]> By: Rhode http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24459 Rhode Mon, 05 May 2008 18:33:40 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24459 It's not a .50 caliber, it's a 5.7 millimeter which is closer to .22 caliber. Meaning it's essentially a pistol that shoots a rifle round. I'm fairly certain that the ammunition available for civillian purchase does not achieve the same armor-penetration as the military rounds, but it is, nonetheless, a pretty ridiculous gun for a civillian to own. It’s not a .50 caliber, it’s a 5.7 millimeter which is closer to .22 caliber. Meaning it’s essentially a pistol that shoots a rifle round. I’m fairly certain that the ammunition available for civillian purchase does not achieve the same armor-penetration as the military rounds, but it is, nonetheless, a pretty ridiculous gun for a civillian to own.

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]]> By: ndterminator http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24457 ndterminator Mon, 05 May 2008 18:32:05 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24457 I've seen & handled the FN 5.7MM and based on that I'm inclined to say that Harrison owned one because it costs big bucks and is currently the "designer gun" that's in vogue. I've carried a handgun in a professional capacity for the better part of 30 years. I pretty much share Matthew Quigley's view of handguns, but if that's what I have to fight with, make mine a 1911 in 45ACP, thanks all the same... I’ve seen & handled the FN 5.7MM and based on that I’m inclined to say that Harrison owned one because it costs big bucks and is currently the “designer gun” that’s in vogue.

I’ve carried a handgun in a professional capacity for the better part of 30 years. I pretty much share Matthew Quigley’s view of handguns, but if that’s what I have to fight with, make mine a 1911 in 45ACP, thanks all the same…

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]]> By: NEdynasty http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24454 NEdynasty Mon, 05 May 2008 18:30:12 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/05/a-look-at-harrisons-gun/#comment-24454 The fact that he owns this gun is not the issue. The fact that this gun was used in a shooting is a huge problem. Whether or not he was the one doing the shooting, if his firearm is used, he can be arrested and charged. Maybe he will not be charged for the murder, but he'll definitely get into some sort of trouble for being an accessory to the crime. You're telling me that he was walking out of HIS club, following a belligerent customer, bullets came out of a gun that HE owns, striking that cutomer, and he had nothing to do with it? What was his gun doing at the scene of the crime anyway? Oh, and nerdmann - all Americans should own firearms? You're retarded. Do you understand how much of a mess this country would be? The fact that he owns this gun is not the issue. The fact that this gun was used in a shooting is a huge problem. Whether or not he was the one doing the shooting, if his firearm is used, he can be arrested and charged. Maybe he will not be charged for the murder, but he’ll definitely get into some sort of trouble for being an accessory to the crime. You’re telling me that he was walking out of HIS club, following a belligerent customer, bullets came out of a gun that HE owns, striking that cutomer, and he had nothing to do with it? What was his gun doing at the scene of the crime anyway?
Oh, and nerdmann - all Americans should own firearms? You’re retarded. Do you understand how much of a mess this country would be?

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