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Mike Freeman of CBS Sports has a column today that, while withholding judgment about whether Marvin Harrison was involved in the shooting outside his North Philadelphia bar last week, questions why Harrison owned the Belgian gun that is at the center of the investigation.
Freeman gives some details about the gun, a Fabrique Nationale 5.7 firearm, noting that it has been advertised for its ability to pierce 48 layers of Kevlar at 50 meters.
Writes Freeman: “Does it bother anyone that an NFL player allegedly owns a gun in which its main attraction to potential buyers is the fact that its ammunition can penetrate body armor? Body armor most times worn by police?”
It’s probably safe to say that it bothers the NFL. The league’s official policy on guns for all employees, including players, states, “In some circumstances, such as for sport or protection, you may legally possess a firearm or other weapon. However, we strongly recommend that you not do so.”
May 5th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
yes, the reason for the 2nd amendment isnt for hunting or sport, like so many politicians and sheeple think. and remember, a much higher percentage of the population hunted for food way back when. writers like michael belleisles are full of crap.
the 2nd amendment is there to keep the gummint from getting too big for its britches. and one could credibly argue that it has been sorely underused.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
It’s always the quiet ones. “He was a good neighbor, kept to himself, didn’t bother anybody.” Until…
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Rating: 4 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
@ John, sure its ok to OWN, POSSESS and CARRY in PA, but isn’t the issue here is that the gun was fired several times in the direction of someone….?
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Rating: 4.5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
There seems to be a tremendous media blackout on this story. If it was a Bengal or a Bear it would headling NBC news. For some reason the Colts have been this sacred cow.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I was so blindsided by this whole Harrison mess. After reading the older stories, I guess I shouldn’t have been.
As to the gun controversy, the second amendment and relevant regulations (including NFL policy) indicate that it was lawful for him to own the gun. To me, the only relevance of the gun is the unique nature of it that helped to identify it as Harrison’s.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Overview (of the FN FiveSeven)
“Conventional sidearms usually use the 9 x 19 mm, .45 ACP and similar cartridges that are effective for stopping a hostile individual in ordinary circumstances. However, FN argues that if that individual is wearing a light Kevlar vest, these bullets will be stopped without causing lethal damage. Such body armor is currently in use with over 50% of the worlds armed forces. Law enforcement officers also need the ability to pierce body armor, as it is worn by an increasing number of criminals. FN claims that thanks to the use of their newly designed 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge, the Five-seveN is capable of piercing the older U.S. Army PASGT vest at 300 meters range, and a U.S. Army PASGT helmet at a range of 240 meters. [NOTE!!] >>> However, these penetration statistics are for the military SS190 cartridge. Other available cartridge variants are not armor-piercing, according to the BATFE. These cartridges are loaded with heavier, expanding projectiles driven at lower velocities.”
“The advantages of the pistol itself include its weight (the 5.7 mm round weighs half as much as a standard 9 mm round), its recoil (FN claims the 5.7 mm round produces roughly half the felt recoil of a 9 mm round), and its 20-round magazine, which holds significantly more ammunition than other pistols. Despite its magazine capacity, the Five-seveN is a light pistol, weighing 726 g (1.6 pounds) loaded. It is also reasonably compact.”
http://www.superpistols.com/#FNFiveseven
Main points of interest: As has already been pointed out, the Kevlar-penetrating capacity of this gun is ONLY relevant when using special military-issued rounds, which are NOT available to the general public.
The normal advantages listed for this gun (i.e. why someone might purchase this gun rather than another gun) have nothing to do with it’s ability to penetrate body armor. Those advantaged include lighter weight, less recoil, 20 round capacity magazine, etc.
If I can find this info in 5 minutes using Google, I think Freeman can — and should have — done his homework a lot better before coming out with his opinion-laced obviously biased piece.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
“You think the language in the second amendment is clear enough? You know, about the right to bear arms.”
“Of course it’s clear. Every American has the right to hang a pair of bear arms on their wall. How could that possibly be misconstrued?”
–Our Fore Fathers
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May 5th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
He has been pitched as a model citizen. Apparently he isnt, and the media isnt above covering its own ass.
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May 5th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
For all you dimwits that like to label “liberals” as anit-gun, I’m a liberal and you or our government will NEVER take my right to own a firearm. If I have to I’ll start my own miltia “Smiley’s Militia” and we’ll be “well regulated” and fear for our safety. So take your political labeling and shove it up your FN 5.7MM.
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Rating: 4.5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
A couple of thoughts….
1) Anything is available, regardless of restrictions, if you are willing to pay the price. Who knows what typw of ammo Marvin Harrison has access to (or uses)
2) The second ammendment gives Americans the right to own a gun (or guns). Typically you have to have permits (which it appears that Marvin did have). However, (personally) I think that with such a right comes responsiblity. If he wants to own the gun - and follows the law, i have no problem with it.
3) There are two things i am concerned about in this case
a) Did he discharge this weapon? If so, why did he have it on him? Why did he feel the need to discharge it in a public setting? The story seems to indicate that a car windshield was struck, possilby injuring a young girl. This put others at risk.
b) If he did not discharge this weapon, how did someone else get a hold of it? Owning this type of firepower requires (morally) someone to keep it secure at all times.
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May 5th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Wow, three pages on comments in 2 hours. I guess guns are still a pretty hot issue…..
Guns are legal, and arguably necessary in some parts of Killadelphia (so can we chill on the bickering?). Also, just for housekeeping, this happened in the northern side of Fairmount. The location of the bar is between the more ‘urban’ neighborhood north of Girard and yuppie/old-Irish element of Fairmount. On the gritty side if you’re from fly-over country, but by no means the lawless wasteland of “North Philadelphia.”
I just don’t understand why anyone who has the intent to do harm and has $$, would choose to perform dirt in such a traceable way. It’s easy, tell someone you trust to follow the offending party, set up an alibi, and don’t use an exotic gun traceable to you. After a few weeks, you pay the shooter handsomely in cash, you catch a few more TDs and nobody messes with your club.
Also, it was interesting to me that the ‘victim’ drove all the way out to Lankenau and used the ‘random gunfire in West Philadelphia’ excuse.
Points to Harrison for finally proving how ‘Philly’ he really is, and points detracted from Roman Catholic for yet another dubious pro athlete story (see also Griffin, Eddie).
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May 5th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I’m also surprised that no comments have broached the implications to the Eagles receiving corps
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May 5th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Hey, to the guy that said a .50 Cal was similar to a .22, ah…not so much, check this link to see for yourself http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg/300px-Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg
And, second here that guns aren’t a “cool” thing to have here in Killadelphia. I’m not for banning them, and I hunt myself, but sometimes I swear that the NRA owns stock in Funeral Homes here in Philly-business is just too good for them. I can’t buy a flipping 6-pack at 7-11, but I can buy as many handguns as I want and walk right out the door, then “lose” them or have them “stolen”, and I don’t even have to file a Police Report-yup, makes total sense to me.
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
From one gun lover to any other one out there…the only reason more people don’t own guns that is because they can’t afford them. I know I can’t. Marvin obviously has the cash, and runs a business.
If Marvin had a 50 cal. pistol on him, wouldn’t that be just as bad? I doubt a Kevlar vest would do much good again that either. How about an AK or an M16, all non- auto models are legal, so the bottom line is “Who cares what he owns as long as it’s not used in an illegal activity…RIGHT?
But like others have said here…Kevlar vests don’t stop knives…should he not have any knives either.
Leave Marvin alone already!
Peace Out!
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Let me clear up some things. The place in question is in Brewerytown (near the Philadelphia museum of Art) not North Philadelphia. That said, it is a little scary and I’d bet that the bad guys in the neighborhood DO wear body armor. Also, what media blackout? This is all over ESPN and CNN. Next, it IS legal to posess weapons in PA, but a handgun is required to be registered with the police in the city of Philadelphia.
Now for my personal opinions: Guns are not “cool”. Maybe in some part of the country where you have rattlesnakes or the only thing to eat is meat on the hoof, yeah, a gun might be a necessity - but not in the middle of a city that has had almost 1000 people shot to death in the last three years, guns are definitely NOT cool. If you second amendment crybabies need to live in a place where everybody packs heat, move to Pakistan, hunt down Bin Laden and make yourselves useful for once in your miserable lives. Honestly, the idea that the “guvment” needs to be kept in check by a bunch of gun totin’ hicks with beer guts and pickup trucks belongs in a Chuck Norris movie - or maybe Adam Sandler, since it’s an unfunny comedy.
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Rating: 2.5 / 5 with 6 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
As others have noted the gun is not a .50 which is measured in inches but a 5.7 which is measered in mm, that is a big difference. Also, Since I have been thinking about purchasing a fn 57, I feel that it should be noted that the ammo that is capable of defeating balistic armour is illegal in the US. Only the military and law enforcement can purchase it. The ammo that is availble in the us is now several grades below what you are talking about.
If you would like to see the gun watch “War” with Jet Li it is the gun that he is using.
Also the 5.7 ammo is only used in the FN P90 and FN 5.7 at this time.
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May 5th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
It’s exactly because there are that many violent deaths that honest citizens (who aren’t the ones out there shooting people) should be able to carry a firearm to protect themselves. Guns can be “cool” in the collecting or sport shooting sense, but carrying for protection is deadly serious, and a constitutional right.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
I just wonder what the hell he’s doing in North Philly or why he’d open a bar there. I know he’s a Roman Catholic High School guy, but couldn’t you open it up on South Street or down in Old City Marvin? That thing is a hand cannon. Then again, I guess when you’re rich you want the best of the best.
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May 5th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Wow. Sounds like Kevin from Philly got coal for X-mas.
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 2 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Harrison or whoever is responsible must be a terrible shot. The gun has a high hit probability feature which gives the weapon, when fired, extremely low recoil which results in virtually no muzzle jump. Seven casings were found and only one reportedly hit the target. Manning would have landed at least six of those seven.
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Rating: 4.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Anyone dogging on him owning this gun think Mr. Taylor would like to have had this gun 8 months back when four punks busted in his door? One shot would have taken care of all four thugs.
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Not that I defend Harrison or his “alleged actions”, but he could be a gun collector. Collectors of any type go after the finest and more pieces, so this could be the case.
Of course if he is found guilty of these crimes, all of his weapons should be confiscated.
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May 5th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
zaijian had it right when he said “The FN five-seven handgun shoots 5.7mm ammunition, which is also used in several of FN’s rifles. It should be noted that just about ANY ammunition fired out of a rifle will be capable of defeating body armor.
However, most rounds fired out of a handgun usually lack the velocity and power to defeat body armor, and those rounds that are capable (Armor-Piercing) are usually regulated or restricted to law-enforcement or military only.
So, I wouldn’t worry about the fact that the FN advertises that it can defeat body armor, as the only people who can obtain the proper ammo are probably the same people only wearing body armor.” and “BTW, a 5.7mm round is equivalent in diameter to a .22 caliber round.” ….the 5.7 rpound is basically a mini or short .223 round, and non police and military can only buy civilian/emasculated rounds. The gun actually looks cheap, mostly plastic, and feels that way too. BATF is very obsesed with keeping armor piercing rounds from getting to the public, they determined some rounds were sold that could penetrate some layers and visited the dealers to track down every round of it. It is not a .50 cal. and kevelar does not defeat knives. If you are going to act the fool with a gun you should not be allowed to own one, they are not toys!
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Rating: 5 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Couple of things;
1) The 2nd ammendment was passed during a time when the only guns that were around were muskits.
2) The reason it was passed was not for hunting or killing your neighbor. It was passed because you needed to defend yourself against the British and “savages”. By “savages” I mean, a group of people who were kicked off their land by the white people.
3) Just because armor piercing bullets are illegal to own, does not mean drug dealers and what not do not have them.
4) Uncommon to popular belief, guns do not kill. It’s the finger that pulls the trigger.
5) The only thing appealing the 2nd ammendment is going to accomplish is that the law abiding citizens will be armed with knives/baseball bats, while the person breaking into their house is armed with a 9mm.
6) Whoever was the one that said “guns are cool”, please do not reproduce.
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Rating: 1 / 5 with 1 rating(s)
May 5th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Kevin from Philly, a Passionate Fan, says: but not in the middle of a city that has had almost 1000 people shot to death in the last three years, guns are definitely NOT cool.
What Kevin? You think those guns just jumped off the shelves and started shooting people on their own??? Guns don’t kill people… people kill people. And the only people who follow gun laws are law abiding citizens already. That probably accounts for a BIG percentage of that 1000 you mentioned too.
Why is it okay to own a gun to shoot defenseless rattlesnakes… but in a city known to have had 1000 murders in the last three years, its not cool???? Do you understand exactly how stupid you sound????? At all??????? I think I can handle the rattlesnakes with a boot heel, and a pocketknife… but if I’m stuck in North Philly, and liable to be confronted by armed assailants - thats EXACTLY where a gun for personal defense makes the most sense.
Kevin from Philly, a Passionate Fan, says: If you second amendment crybabies need to live in a place where everybody packs heat, move to Pakistan, hunt down Bin Laden and make yourselves useful for once in your miserable lives.
It’s being handled by United States armed forces (most of whom definitely support the 2nd amendment to the constitution), and under whose protection you spout your ignorant drivel.
Kevin from Philly, a Passionate Fan, says: Honestly, the idea that the “guvment” needs to be kept in check by a bunch of gun totin’ hicks with beer guts and pickup trucks belongs in a Chuck Norris movie - or maybe Adam Sandler, since it’s an unfunny comedy.
Ha ha ha! Try a history book, and look under American revolution smart@ss.
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Rating: 3.65 / 5 with 3 rating(s)