Look, the Pats created a video archive that included signal stealing. The only violation there was the location of the cameras.
Nothing says they couldnt do it again simply from a different location. Doesnt that bother you a little -as a football fan? Heck we even know that the Jets were taping the games for a similar type of archive (their camera man was ejected from Gillette stadium). The NFL can get the situation under control by simply more clearly defining straightforward rules.

Actually, I want the truth too. But Goodell says he will punish the Pats if something new comes from the Matt Walsh info ….makes me wonder just how far back he can go with any team. If someone comes forward with info regarding SBII does that give Goodell the right to sanction that team? It’s ridiculous to go keep going back and trying to penalize teams for what may have been commonplace. Goodell should concentrate on laying down clear and direct rules and enforcing them going forward.
And to the haters I just wonder what excuse you have for last year and for next year and the years to come when the Pats dynasty continues to dominate your teams.

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I wish the other Pats fans who post here were more like you. What you said is, for the most part, spot on. And that’s WHY, if you look at some of the posts here, you’ll see a prevailing sense that Goodell is hellbent on sweeping this thing under the carpet. Look, man — if we’re all big boys and girls here, we can admit that Belichick’s cheating was not an isolated incident. I understand that. And I think most posters here understand that. (By the same token, it’s not an excuse for what the Pats did and got caught doing either).

But BECAUSE it’s obviously not an isolated incident, the NFL is petrified that Belichick will spill the beans. And I’d go so far as to say that anyone who doesn’t realize that this is what’s at the core of all of this is not seeing things clearly. So the real question here is: do those of us who love football really WANT the truth? Personally, I do. And if it means some sort of wholesale housecleaning, so be it. Things have obviously gotten out of control, and this really is just the tip of the iceberg. But what’s the alternative? To play “Emperor’s New Clothes” and pretend everything is honky dory? Not this fan.

And please, let me be crystal clear — this has NOTHING to do with hating the Pats, or being envious of the Pats, etc. It has everything to do, however, with loving the truth. You can choose to accept that or not, but that’s my primary motivation. I liked watching the Cowboys win in their dynasty days. I liked watching the Niners win in their dynasty days. And I even liked the Steelers (I had to throw up a little bit in my mouth saying that one) during their dynasty days. I didn’t, however, like the Broncos. But not because of their W/L record — it was only because of the way Elway dissed the Colts and refused to come here after being drafted by them. But that had nothing to do with whether he won games or lost games in Denver; it only had to do with the snub.

At the very least, it’ll be very interesting to see how this all plays out. Thanks for your post.

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That said, if there is any more to this story, I think Roger Goodell has a responsibility to get to the bottom of it. Then he can either send Matt Walsh back into obscurity if he’s full of it, or levy the proper punishment on the Patriots if there is more hard evidence against them. The point is, you can’t just hope this all goes away. It’s way too late for that.

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You seem to be missing the main point here, intentionally or otherwise: the revelation in the Boston Herald in February, 2008, that something OTHER than what had already been addressed had occurred during the Rams walk-through prior to Super Bowl XXXVI. And while the direct connection has yet to be made to Walsh, IF it turns out that Walsh made or knew that tapes had been made of the pre-game practice prior to the Super Bowl with the Rams, then these discussions about a NEW event are totally relevant, although clearly inconvenient to homer Pats fans who can’t seem to deal with the consequences of their team’s actions.

Oh, and btw — both of your other arguments are weak. 1. EVERYBODY cheats. Wrong. And 2. That all of the comments that address how the Patriots are cheaters and most likely have not even begun to be punished the way they should are merely the results of the “Pats haters”. (For example, the fact that a Dallas assistant coach was suspended for ordering/taking steroid medication for his own medical condition because those steroids MIGHT have ended up being used by Cowboy players yet Belichick wasn’t suspended despite having done something CLEARLY detrimental to the league as a whole just stinks of “sweeping under the carpet”.) Frankly, I could care less one way or the other about the Pats. What I DO care about is a team that thinks it’s above the rules. You have evidence that other teams have cheated? Bring it! And let the powers that be punish all who are found guilty. That’s simple enough, isn’t it? In the meantime, the only team PROVEN to have cheated is the Patriots. And so, with each NEW revelation of cheating that appears, NEW investigations and discussions are warranted. As someone else already pointed out, the only people who DON’T get that are Pats fans. Funny how that works, isn’t it?

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Disclosure of the contents of an illegally recorded conversation, when accompanied by the knowledge that it was obtained illegally, is a misdemeanor that can be punished with a fine of up to $5,000 and imprisonment for up to two years. Civil damages are expressly authorized for the greater of actual damages, $100 for each day of violation or $1,000. Punitive damages and attorney fees also are recoverable.

hopefully html will work here. K, so. If he fesses up to the illegal taping, and hands over his tapes, it is a misdemeanor, according to the above. “Civil damages” is the key here…his indemnity prevents civil damages being filed against him by all parties who have a stake in this. The state of Mass could, conceivably, file charges, but with the indemnity in place, it is not likely he would be charged, as he willingly came forward and handed (will hand) over the materials.

That said…I am a Patriots fan, and always will be. I think that this was a lie that grew into something much bigger. I think that Walsh (nor the media) knew about Belichick already fessing up to the taping all the way back to 2000 is huge. I think Walsh got into something bigger than he was. The guy obviously likes to embellish…just look at his resume. He thought he could feed the frenzy a bit and back off quietly. But the media started digging into HIS life, and flushing out his lies and embellishments. His reputation was at stake, and then a certain Senator jumped on board. And Walsh saw the hooplah as a way OUT of what was now hanging over his head as potential criminal charges. He could fess up, share what he knew, then say “I wasnt the one making it a big deal”, and walk away unscathed in terms of criminal charges. This way he looks like a schmuck, but not a criminal. Thats my take.

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So the league won’t disclose that Walsh turned over the audio tapes but use them to punish the Patriots. He is going to suspend Belichick on evidence he can’t talk like illegally obtained audiotape about and then the Patriots are going to sit back and say “Oh well, it sucks for us. Belichick was suspended on evidence that would send Walsh to jail, but turning it over to the state of Massachusetts would be just mean.”

So you call me Homer Simpleton because I deal with reality and not the fantasy world you live in. Unless it is stated in the indemnity agreement that the Pats and the league won’t turn over any of the materials to anyone else including the authorities, then Walsh has no protection. No one has yet to produce writing in the agreement that states that. All he has is indemnity which means the court will cover legal fees if he is sue (and potentially criminally tried) for illegally audiotaping senior members of the Patriots staff. Anything else that you are talking about has not ever been mentioned anywhere.

So you are already setting it up as the league sweeping it under the rug because Walsh will turn over audiotapes indicting the Patriots, but the League won’t use them and Walsh won’t say anything publically because he opens himself to criminal actions. Isn’t that convenient.

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How is cheating the cap not affecting the game on the field? So you have a stronger roster because you cheated the cap, how does that not change the way the way it is on the field. As far as I am concerned, cheating is cheating no matter what committee it is covered under. If someone is fined and docked draft picks, it doesn’t mean it isn’t cheating. If the league didn’t think it affected the strength of the the team, they wouldn’t have punished them.

You don’t get it. I am not absolving the Patriots by saying everyone is doing it. I am pointing out that although you and other want to act like the Pats are the only ones who do things that are against the rules, it isn’t the case.

As for Jimmy Johnson, it is hypocritical to say that his opinion doesn’t count while Levy does. Especially since you brought up Johnson in the first place stating he never said anything about videotaping. Also, the fact that both former coaches have an agenda when it comes to Belichick since it is widely known that Johnson is a friend of Belichick and Levy is known to not like Belichick.

I never ignored Levy’s comments. What I am I going to say? He didn’t do it and to his knowledge no one else did. What does that really tell us? He was unaware that Johnson did it. Maybe he was unaware that anyone else did. Just because he didn’t know anyone else doing it doesn’t mean there weren’t.

You are splitting hairs to make your argument fit. Not surprising considering you are an obvious biased Patriots hater who thinks things like putting astericks next to dynasty means anything to me.

Maybe you should go to the Patsfan.com board since you are so obviously obsessed with the Patriots that you troll Patsfans.com. Last time I checked this is an open forum.

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So you are more credible that a two time Superbowl winning head coach? Clearly you are not a delussional jealous fan. And Pats fans are not saying we didn’t cheat. We did, and we where punished. You are the ones who won’t let it go. You want to belive that losing isn’t you fault.

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But if immunity from prosecution would only be an issue if the alleged tapes became public, and Walsh wanted to make sure that what he revealed in private would not end up coming back on him via a law suit (hence, where the indemnity part), it all makes more sense now. He can reveal to the NFL in private whatever tapes he has without fear of being sued by the Patriots. Or, more correctly, that if he is sued by the Patriots, he’d receive legal counsel, etc. as a result of the indemnity clause.

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I’m seeing the same thing out of you i’m seeing out of every single apologist Pats fan. You’re trying to grab onto any rules violation you possibly can and labeling it “cheating”. Salary cap violations are not under the jurisdiction of the Competition Comittee to the best of my knowledge. Why? Because it doesn’t affect the game as it’s played on the field. I suppose you’d consider uniform violations as “cheating” too? After all, they’re rule violations. I guess any rule violation is “cheating” too huh? You guys will say anything to avoid having to cop to the fact that your team has officially been cheating for the entirety of its dynasty* and that you can provide ZERO evidence that anybody else has been doing it. Sorry, Jimmy Johnson’s quotes don’t cut it.

And I notice you completely ignored my link to Marv Levy’s comments. Like I said, keep that stuff over at Patsfans.com. I know you’re a regular over there.

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I don’t need to get into all these personal attacks, but a little sugguestion is you shouldn’t call someone a tool after you dressed them down about something he was completely right about and you were clueless on.

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what a tool.

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You might want to look up the difference between indemnity and immunity before you cast stones. The league has no power to grant the Walsh immunity from prosecution for violating laws of Massachusetts. Indemnity means that if Walsh is sued, the league will pick up his bills. The agreement also said that the Pats won’t file a lawsuit based on what he turns over. I don’t know if it says that he won’t press charges.

The Pats won’t even need to press charges if the audiotape is actually turned over to ESPN or another news outlet and played on the air. If Walsh or Goodell say publically that he turned it over, it is probably enough for prosecutor to investigate. Specter started his investigation with less.

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Not surprised that you would praise someone for spelling out to Pats fans that he doesn’t understand the law and the Pats fans do. Kudos to all you Patriots haters for setting yourselves up for a big let down on May 8th when Walsh doesn’t turn over a single audiotape of conversations with Pioli because his lawyer knows more than you guys that indemnity isn’t immunity.

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http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/patriots/index.php/2008/02/23/jimmy-johnson-thinks-spygate-is-overblown/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

http://www.sportslawnews.com/archive/Articles%202000/Policysalarycappenalty.htm

Here are some examples of cheating.

As for Spyboot being correct, why would he cover his ass about something he won’t bring forward in a million years. Again Indemnity is not immunity from prosecution.

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Yeah, if the smoking gun of the actual tape is broadcasted on Sportscenter every 10 minutes, no charges will be filed. Yeah, right. So if a video of someone killing someone is broadcast on the news and no one actually files a complaint, the murder can’t be charged with murder.

Also, indemnity does not mean the Pats won’t file charges anyway. Just that will pick up the legal bill.

You really need to learn the law.

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I get the part that indemnity is not immunity. Immunity from prosecution is something the league and the Patriots have no power to give.

Note to Mike Florio. Could you please give a lesson on the difference? Apparently, too many people don’t understand that indemnity only means that the league will pay his legal bills.

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You might want to look up indemnity and immunity. You clearly do not know the difference. If he made an illegal audiotape and it is made public, the State of Massachusetts can bring criminal charges whether the Patriots or League get involved or not. He does not have immunity from proscetution and the League and Patriots have absolutely no power to give him immunity from prosecution. He can use the “But I have indemnity” defense all the way to jail.

It is good to know you know exactly what Walsh has. Considering no one else does.

I will forgoe responding to the rest of your misinformation until you get a little more educated on the law.

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Give it up dude. Don’t come over here adn peddle that nonsense. Stay over at Patsfans.com where people are actually gullible enough to buy into the crap you’re trying to sell. Just stop with the Jimmy Johnson thing. Even if if he did do it, there’s no evidence whatsoever indicating any other team was doing anything. Consider the source. JJ would never pass as a character witness in any context. He’s a scumbag and always has been. Here’s a piece from Time magazine where Marv Levy (same era) goes on record stating not only that he never did that kind of thing, but didn’t know of any other coach he had either. Enjoy.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1699865,00.html

Spybootz is likely the one most correct here. Walsh was likely simply covering himself because he was being asked to do something he shouldn’t have been.

For those of you trying to say “every other team” did this stuff…..feel free to present your evidence. You have none, because there is none. We DO, however, have plenty of proof the Cheatriots have been doing it since 2000.

2000-2006 New England Patriots*

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I think the Pats PROVED without any reasonable doubt that they can win without taping. I laugh at you sponges that all of a sudden consider a rules violation=cheating.
Was it cheating when Denver violated the cap? Ha!

Don’t hate me because Im a dynasty. LOL.

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FINALLY. Somebody who can see what’s going on and spell it out in terms that even a caveman — I mean a Pats fan — I mean just about anyone with a functioning brain can understand.

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Except for, you know, the whole ignoring a league memo on cheating and getting caught doing the things that were reiterated as against the rules in said memo thing.

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Lots of Pats fans proving that they don’t care how their team wins so long as they win, too.

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I’m gonna go ahead and call “shenanigans” on this one.

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What part of “indemnity” do you not get, Pats fan?

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You incorrectly state that there is no way Walsh would turn over audio tapes made illegally because it would be his ticket to prison. That is false, he got indemnity from those allegations. Without anyone to bring them against him he has no ticket to prison.

I think spyboots is 100% correct. Walsh has more video tapes of more types of cheating, and he has audio tapes of him being directed to tape what he has video of. He got the audio tape because he knew he was being directed to cheat. He wouldn’t come forward without the indemnity because he knew he’d committed a crime in getting the audio tape.

It’s the only explaination that would make sence given the facts that Walsh disappeared after he was fired rather than coming forward (doesn’t fit a vindictive former employee… he’d have come forward right away). He had no way to bring what he had forward… he’d be sued.

Now that he can’t be sued for illegally taping the conversations where he was presumably told to video tape things against league rules he’s able to come forward both with his proof of cheating, and directives to do so.

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Sorry to get all lawyerly on y’all. Just my take on it.

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I agree. If all Walsh has is more examples of videotaping defensive signals, it means nothing will happen and people will be asking themselves “Is this it?”.

If you look at the timeline, Walsh said he had information before it became known that the Pats admitted to videotaping defensive signals since 2000. Mike Fish who wrote the initial ESPN piece on Walsh even said this week that he didn’t know the Patriots admitted to this when he was interviewing Walsh. So Walsh probably didn’t know it either.

Walsh, nor his lawyers, have ever even hinted they have the videotape of the Rams’ walkthrough nor that he is even the videographer who was subject of the rumor published by the Boston Herald. The media and fans have just speculated that he is, but there is no proof that he is nor any indication he will even claim he is.

Peter King was on Mike and Mike this morning and he said that through his sources, he believes Walsh will not provide anything more than more examples of the Pats videotaping opposing signals. If he is right, the whole thing will be over and the Pats will be exonerated of the rumors and allegations of other types of cheating.

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There is a big difference between videotaping defensive signals (which has been exposed as less than a unique practice since Jimmy Johnson has said he, the Chiefs, and other teams have done it in the past) and videotaping a walkthrough.

Matt Walsh appears to be admitting he is a felon in this agreement. As a criminal, is it a stretch to believe that anything he says without proof is a lie? He is the only one in this whole thing accused of an actual crime punishable by the law and he seems to admit it happened.

The Dynasties line just show you are just a biased hater who hates the Pats that you won’t look at the facts other than to twist them to suit your agenda. Sorta like you are accusing the Pats fans. In your mind, Walsh has the goods to sink the Pats.

BTW, exactly what team are you a fan of and how many Super Bowls since you are so preoccupied with dynasties and Super Bowls? Personally, I could care less if the Pats are considered a Dynasty because it is just a word.

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You just don’t get it do you! The Patriots ADMITTED to taping games back to when BB started in ‘00 and they were punished for it. If Walsh has any tapes of games during this time it doesn’t matter since they already admitted to it and were punished. The only thing that makes a difference is if Walsh has evidence of other wrong doings.

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You should take your own advice, because it is a two way street. For every Patriot-hater out there salivating at their keyboards and holding vigil the past 83 days and praying for their lord and savior Matt Walsh to rise up and bring them to the promiseland and waiting to pat themselves on the back and laugh and say I told you so… there is a Patriots fan waiting to do the same thing.

You know nothing. I know nothing. EVERYONE should take a chill pill until day 102 of this CRISIS brings us “closure” on May 13th.

Early prediction: no matter what happens, you’re all still going to b!tch about it.

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In my opinion, that would be hard to do because:

1. Obviously, the Jets game, in which a totally different guy is doing the same thing
2. Coach Herm Edwards, smiling and waving at Pats cameras.

3. Not to mention, Belicheck himself said “He thought it was okay.”

I could go on and on but I don’t want to seem like an upset Steelers fan. LOL!

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Since Belichek says they don’t have anything, they simply believe him. For whatever reason, they seem to have forgotten their team was already caught cheating.

Is it too far of a leap to presume they cheated more than we already know they cheated?

For all Pats fans, TRY waiting until this mess is over. Once the Pats are in the clear, yank out those “18-1″ t-shirts and start partying. Until then, let’s not comment on a situation you know nothing about.

Don’t forget, dynasties don’t lose Super Bowls.

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