Comments on: PLAYERS WANT ROOKIE PAY STRUCTURE http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:35:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: DwayneRudd http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19753 DwayneRudd Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:15:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19753 The common wisdom espoused EVERYWHERE is that you build through the draft, not through free agency, because free agency is too expensive. It means you can replace a 30 year old veteran with 2 23 year old kids and still have money left at the end of the day. So from a veteran's point of view, more expensive rookies means they're on a more even playing surface, and it comes down to comparative skill, rather than comparative skill and money. Superstars with mega contracts don't have to worry about getting replaced by a rookie, and they would be the ones with the windfall if rookie pay went down. But the average journeyman veteran who's just fighting for survival probably worries alot more about having a job at all rather than whether his pay is $450,000 or $455,000 per year. And the journeymen have the votes in the union. The common wisdom espoused EVERYWHERE is that you build through the draft, not through free agency, because free agency is too expensive. It means you can replace a 30 year old veteran with 2 23 year old kids and still have money left at the end of the day.

So from a veteran’s point of view, more expensive rookies means they’re on a more even playing surface, and it comes down to comparative skill, rather than comparative skill and money.

Superstars with mega contracts don’t have to worry about getting replaced by a rookie, and they would be the ones with the windfall if rookie pay went down. But the average journeyman veteran who’s just fighting for survival probably worries alot more about having a job at all rather than whether his pay is $450,000 or $455,000 per year. And the journeymen have the votes in the union.

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]]> By: twohorses http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19295 twohorses Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:03:24 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19295 With the bombing of the U.S. economy, Gene Upshaw better get his house in order. While the NFL is still the best game in town, it is unlikely NFL profits will continue to grow so expansively. Upshaw needs to understand $4 a gallon gas, house foreclosures, and the psychological loyalty NFL fans have toward their team's players who have already proven themselves as great players for the fans' preferred teams. Upshaw needs to work toward preventing ANY labor stoppage or ANY labor hints of wanting more, more, more money. Part of that would be a rookie salary cap. Gas and milk will likely be $4 a gallon by mid summer. That means those $40 Tom Brady jerseys won't be flying off the shelves as quickly. ALL ATHLETES of ALL SPORTS need to understand this ain't the world of $2 a gallon gas and milk. Upshaw needs to understand he represents current union members. With the bombing of the U.S. economy, Gene Upshaw better get his house in order. While the NFL is still the best game in town, it is unlikely NFL profits will continue to grow so expansively.

Upshaw needs to understand $4 a gallon gas, house foreclosures, and the psychological loyalty NFL fans have toward their team’s players who have already proven themselves as great players for the fans’ preferred teams.

Upshaw needs to work toward preventing ANY labor stoppage or ANY labor hints of wanting more, more, more money. Part of that would be a rookie salary cap.

Gas and milk will likely be $4 a gallon by mid summer. That means those $40 Tom Brady jerseys won’t be flying off the shelves as quickly.

ALL ATHLETES of ALL SPORTS need to understand this ain’t the world of $2 a gallon gas and milk.

Upshaw needs to understand he represents current union members.

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]]> By: Sociofan http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19240 Sociofan Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:57:27 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19240 If the agents don't want it, they are free to represent their clients to the Canadian Football League or the Arena Football League....oh yeah, snicker. GFH makes a great point, that agents would be less important to a rookie's pay slot and would lose the 3% commission. Hey "agents", how about this---go do your job and earn your clients some endorsements?!? If they really ARE "all that", you should be able to pick up some endorsements for them and if you do that, you might earn their trust to keep you around when it comes time to negotiate the big money deals. If the agents don’t want it, they are free to represent their clients to the Canadian Football League or the Arena Football League….oh yeah, snicker. GFH makes a great point, that agents would be less important to a rookie’s pay slot and would lose the 3% commission. Hey “agents”, how about this—go do your job and earn your clients some endorsements?!? If they really ARE “all that”, you should be able to pick up some endorsements for them and if you do that, you might earn their trust to keep you around when it comes time to negotiate the big money deals.

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]]> By: Shackman http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19235 Shackman Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:50:43 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19235 This situation should have been addressed years ago. The reason it hasn't can be traced all the way to the stooge who is supposed to be representing the rank and file. And still he resists change. That should tell you everything you need to know about this turd. And to the individual that stated that rookies wouldn't need an agent if a rookie wage scale were to be put in place, nothing could be further from the truth. Every player needs sound representation, someone who can look past the compensation portion and look out for his players other needs. Marketing deals immediately come to mind. This situation should have been addressed years ago. The reason it hasn’t can be traced all the way to the stooge who is supposed to be representing the rank and file. And still he resists change. That should tell you everything you need to know about this turd.

And to the individual that stated that rookies wouldn’t need an agent if a rookie wage scale were to be put in place, nothing could be further from the truth. Every player needs sound representation, someone who can look past the compensation portion and look out for his players other needs. Marketing deals immediately come to mind.

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]]> By: ButchD http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19218 ButchD Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:34:13 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19218 Who is Mort's agent????????????????? Who is Mort’s agent?????????????????

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]]> By: humoroususername http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19181 humoroususername Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:55:14 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19181 Upshaw is a d-bag. He is not good at what he does. This guy has got to go. He is so dirty. Upshaw is a d-bag. He is not good at what he does. This guy has got to go. He is so dirty.

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]]> By: empty13 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19156 empty13 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:12:12 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19156 Upsahw is in the big agents' pockets. His personal agent is on the union's retirees compensation board. wtf4? he doesnt represent anyone - except maybe representing no-accomplishment young players and his own interests in keeping retireees from getting too many crumbs from the dinner table... Upsahw is in the big agents’ pockets. His personal agent is on the union’s retirees compensation board. wtf4? he doesnt represent anyone - except maybe representing no-accomplishment young players and his own interests in keeping retireees from getting too many crumbs from the dinner table…

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]]> By: ppdoc http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19146 ppdoc Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:04:26 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19146 Upshaw is a high paid stooge. The players if they had a collective brain would want a rookie cap because it would leave a bigger pool for the players on each team to divide up. While you might say that Jake Long has now set the standard for LT position when you look at it as a whole, the pool of current players benefits if there is a limit to what any single rookie can make and the total cap keeps rising. But Upshaw doesn't want to piss off his agents. Another example of a rather large conflict of interest. Upshaw is a high paid stooge. The players if they had a collective brain would want a rookie cap because it would leave a bigger pool for the players on each team to divide up. While you might say that Jake Long has now set the standard for LT position when you look at it as a whole, the pool of current players benefits if there is a limit to what any single rookie can make and the total cap keeps rising. But Upshaw doesn’t want to piss off his agents. Another example of a rather large conflict of interest.

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]]> By: GFH http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19135 GFH Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:51:41 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19135 The agents don't want this because rookies drafted in the top spots will no longer need agents for their pay negotiations. Why would you give someone 3% of your pay when you can simply walk in and tell the team you want the most the scale has to offer you? The agents then would only get the 3% of the marketing of the player, which is one DUI or sexual assault charge away from evaporating. The agents don’t want this because rookies drafted in the top spots will no longer need agents for their pay negotiations. Why would you give someone 3% of your pay when you can simply walk in and tell the team you want the most the scale has to offer you? The agents then would only get the 3% of the marketing of the player, which is one DUI or sexual assault charge away from evaporating.

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]]> By: kayC http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19125 kayC Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:34:20 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19125 Upshaw likely continues to offer up "flimsy" excuses for not wanting to change the current structure because even flimsy excuses sound better than his real reason for opposing it-- because the NFL owners are suggesting it. Viva la union. Upshaw likely continues to offer up “flimsy” excuses for not wanting to change the current structure because even flimsy excuses sound better than his real reason for opposing it– because the NFL owners are suggesting it. Viva la union.

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]]> By: JonB http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19120 JonB Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:22:41 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19120 NFLPA Union members, remember you pay your union dues for a reason. You pay them for the right to say who represents you, and the ideas and actions of the union. Use your right to get a leader. Not an ego maniac, who cares more about his relationship to the NFL owners, than to those who pay his salary. NFLPA Union members, remember you pay your union dues for a reason. You pay them for the right to say who represents you, and the ideas and actions of the union. Use your right to get a leader. Not an ego maniac, who cares more about his relationship to the NFL owners, than to those who pay his salary.

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]]> By: trikee http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19118 trikee Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:19:24 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19118 When is Chris Mortensen ever correct? He comes off as a know it all and an authority but doesn't know sh-t! When is Chris Mortensen ever correct? He comes off as a know it all and an authority but doesn’t know sh-t!

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]]> By: empty13 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19116 empty13 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:13:53 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19116 For agents it is about "the big money". The splash. The publicity. And they have Capo Gino's ear now. If he is replaced and/or a pay plan rule switch goes into effect for the rookies... they might be out of some $. And out of the ability to command even more money and clout. For agents it is about “the big money”. The splash. The publicity. And they have Capo Gino’s ear now. If he is replaced and/or a pay plan rule switch goes into effect for the rookies… they might be out of some $. And out of the ability to command even more money and clout.

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]]> By: DutchRam http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19109 DutchRam Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:06:23 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19109 dfrooney: agents get a percentage of every *new* deal and only of the guaranteed part, which explains why they won't want to take that away from the rookies.. Keywords being new and guaranteed money. Agents do not get money from the base salary a vet makes a year. dfrooney: agents get a percentage of every *new* deal and only of the guaranteed part, which explains why they won’t want to take that away from the rookies.. Keywords being new and guaranteed money. Agents do not get money from the base salary a vet makes a year.

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]]> By: dragon2o00 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19108 dragon2o00 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:05:43 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19108 dfrooney - CAA agents consistently land the top college prospects because of their track record for getting big contracts. when you're representing college players, no one can guarantee how they will translate into the nfl. it's easier to cover for these agents to consistently land the big names to get the big paycheck year after year because by the time the rookie contract is up, you don't know if that player will be worth another big contract. if they made the change that players, fans, and the owners want, it'll be a crap shoot each year as to how much each agent makes because not all the players they represent will be worth the big contracts. dfrooney - CAA agents consistently land the top college prospects because of their track record for getting big contracts. when you’re representing college players, no one can guarantee how they will translate into the nfl. it’s easier to cover for these agents to consistently land the big names to get the big paycheck year after year because by the time the rookie contract is up, you don’t know if that player will be worth another big contract. if they made the change that players, fans, and the owners want, it’ll be a crap shoot each year as to how much each agent makes because not all the players they represent will be worth the big contracts.

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]]> By: Jeremiah W http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19107 Jeremiah W Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:04:42 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19107 The agents would actually have to do more work for the same money. They would get the same percentage of the salary cap I think, but then they would actually have to work and negotiate more deals more often for the same slice. The rookie payscale could take the need for agents away all together until the second contract or for guys who go undrafted. The most fair thing I can think of is the NBA model where free agency happens sooner, but the team that drafted you has the chance to pay the most money to keep you. The agents would actually have to do more work for the same money.
They would get the same percentage of the salary cap I think, but then they would actually have to work and negotiate more deals more often for the same slice.

The rookie payscale could take the need for agents away all together until the second contract or for guys who go undrafted.

The most fair thing I can think of is the NBA model where free agency happens sooner, but the team that drafted you has the chance to pay the most money to keep you.

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]]> By: pointNumberOne http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19105 pointNumberOne Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:03:08 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19105 I'm sure not *all* agents would be against it... just the group that always has the big picks at the top. I’m sure not *all* agents would be against it… just the group that always has the big picks at the top.

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]]> By: wvugrad00 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19104 wvugrad00 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:01:52 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19104 Because the Agent also gets the incoming not only from the signing bonus but every year that the kid is on the team. That agent is almost guarenteed to get paid for the 4 to 6 yrs from the kid. The agent for Alexander only received his portion from the signing bonus and the two yrs that he was on the Seahawks. Its not like the agent gets the plays a 6 yr 100 million dollar contract and the player has to cough up the 2 or 3% right there. He only pays the agent for the money he receives from the team. Because the Agent also gets the incoming not only from the signing bonus but every year that the kid is on the team. That agent is almost guarenteed to get paid for the 4 to 6 yrs from the kid. The agent for Alexander only received his portion from the signing bonus and the two yrs that he was on the Seahawks. Its not like the agent gets the plays a 6 yr 100 million dollar contract and the player has to cough up the 2 or 3% right there. He only pays the agent for the money he receives from the team.

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]]> By: Sociofan http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19103 Sociofan Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:01:47 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19103 As a fan, I absolutely agree with the idea. Not to mention that frequently these guys don't even perform much better than some mid-round picks, they destroy teams. Too often we see veterans forced to depart because so much money is eaten up in cap space by these unbelievable rookie contracts. Then you have guys who were drafted a few years before and who ARE performing at top levels look at the rookie contracts and hold out (or threaten to hold out) for even bigger contracts themselves. It's out of control. How about a standard "compensation" scale for the first 4 years and then some type of exclusive bargaining opportunity for the drafting team after that? EARN your way into the big money and give the home team the first crack at trying to keep you in town. As a fan, I absolutely agree with the idea. Not to mention that frequently these guys don’t even perform much better than some mid-round picks, they destroy teams. Too often we see veterans forced to depart because so much money is eaten up in cap space by these unbelievable rookie contracts. Then you have guys who were drafted a few years before and who ARE performing at top levels look at the rookie contracts and hold out (or threaten to hold out) for even bigger contracts themselves. It’s out of control. How about a standard “compensation” scale for the first 4 years and then some type of exclusive bargaining opportunity for the drafting team after that? EARN your way into the big money and give the home team the first crack at trying to keep you in town.

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]]> By: Dennis http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19102 Dennis Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:00:28 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19102 The argument is that the big money contracts are more lucrative for the agents (they require marginally more effort for much larger paydays compared to veteran clients). The huge rookie deals also give the agents more publicity, helping them land more disgruntled veteran clients. If one had the option of negotiating trades and contracts for one player for $150k or negotiating trades and contracts for 50 players for $150k, which do you think is more preferable? The argument is that the big money contracts are more lucrative for the agents (they require marginally more effort for much larger paydays compared to veteran clients). The huge rookie deals also give the agents more publicity, helping them land more disgruntled veteran clients.

If one had the option of negotiating trades and contracts for one player for $150k or negotiating trades and contracts for 50 players for $150k, which do you think is more preferable?

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]]> By: GEORGIAVOL http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19100 GEORGIAVOL Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:57:39 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19100 This story has really caused me to lose all respect for Mort. How can this guy be so out of touch with mainstream players? Has he fallen under the spell of Upshaw? This story has really caused me to lose all respect for Mort. How can this guy be so out of touch with mainstream players? Has he fallen under the spell of Upshaw?

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]]> By: dfrooney http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19090 dfrooney Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:45:32 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19090 I don't understand the agent argument... the NFL has a salary cap, there is a set amount of money to made every year, thus, there is a set percentage of that money that will go to the agents every year. Why would an agent care if the money goes to veteran clients rather than rookie clients? I would think it would be easier for an agent to rely on a more stable list of veterans to feed his family rather than killing himself to land a top 10 prospect rookie that may never sign a second contract. I don’t understand the agent argument…

the NFL has a salary cap, there is a set amount of money to made every year, thus, there is a set percentage of that money that will go to the agents every year. Why would an agent care if the money goes to veteran clients rather than rookie clients?

I would think it would be easier for an agent to rely on a more stable list of veterans to feed his family rather than killing himself to land a top 10 prospect rookie that may never sign a second contract.

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]]> By: empty13 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19085 empty13 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:36:21 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/players-want-rookie-pay-structure/#comment-19085 Capo Gino needs to go down. Capo Gino needs to go down.

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