Comments on: NEW DRAFT TRADE CHART http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/ The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:28:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: 0tt0 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-16571 0tt0 Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:30:07 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-16571 lets state the obvious.....11 teams want to move up in the draft so they embraced the schedule that costs less.............if the fins wanted to trade their #1 for #32 they could do it today without any chart.....this is the back end teams tryin to justify their offers lets state the obvious…..11 teams want to move up in the draft so they embraced the schedule that costs less………….if the fins wanted to trade their #1 for #32 they could do it today without any chart…..this is the back end teams tryin to justify their offers

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]]> By: Mr Shush http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-16015 Mr Shush Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:09:23 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-16015 The fact that things have been done in a certain way in the past is no guarantee that they always will be - even as recently as four years ago. I suspect that trades for the first overall pick are never likely to be dictated by any chart so much as by how much the teams involved love the relevant player. This year, there's not really anyone to love. More generally, I think this chart is an overall improvement. The fact that things have been done in a certain way in the past is no guarantee that they always will be - even as recently as four years ago. I suspect that trades for the first overall pick are never likely to be dictated by any chart so much as by how much the teams involved love the relevant player. This year, there’s not really anyone to love. More generally, I think this chart is an overall improvement.

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]]> By: jonnyh http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15898 jonnyh Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:09:33 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15898 NOT EVEN CLOSE. The 19th and 20th pick to move up to #1? Anyone who knows football or has EVER fallowed the draft knows that is simply ridiculous. ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. Go back and look at any trade involving a top 5 pick and it will show how ridiculous this chart is. The Chargers trade to move up for Leaf or down for Rivers Falcons moving up for Vick Saints moving up for Ricky Williams NOT EVEN CLOSE. The 19th and 20th pick to move up to #1? Anyone who knows football or has EVER fallowed the draft knows that is simply ridiculous. ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. Go back and look at any trade involving a top 5 pick and it will show how ridiculous this chart is.
The Chargers trade to move up for Leaf or down for Rivers
Falcons moving up for Vick
Saints moving up for Ricky Williams

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]]> By: Lost http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15766 Lost Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:54:34 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15766 KY observes this is a Cowboy chart as their lower first round choices add up to 1690. Using a trade scenario of Cowboy trading up/down for Mendenhall for Viking # 17 and #48 the standard chart required Vike to throw in their 4th round selection. Cowboy would give up #22 and #28. Using the new chart the Viking 1st, 2nd and 3rd don't add up to 1690. So, KY is correct. The new chart apportions greater value to lower 1st round selections. Can't see it would take a 3rd to move up a net of ten spots from mid 2nd to the 1st round. KY observes this is a Cowboy chart as their lower first round choices add up to 1690. Using a trade scenario of Cowboy trading up/down for Mendenhall for Viking # 17 and #48 the standard chart required Vike to throw in their 4th round selection. Cowboy would give up #22 and #28.

Using the new chart the Viking 1st, 2nd and 3rd don’t add up to 1690. So, KY is correct. The new chart apportions greater value to lower 1st round selections. Can’t see it would take a 3rd to move up a net of ten spots from mid 2nd to the 1st round.

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]]> By: TMC http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15761 TMC Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:42:22 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15761 I hope that this is some internet mistake that is being touted as NFL worthy. I would certainly hope that NFL teams would employ people intelligent enough to keep the costs between picks even or on a downward trend as you move through the round. The difference between selection 6 and 7 is only 40 points while the difference between 7 and 8 is 65. So, a team can move from 7 to 6 for a 5th rounder but the cost to move from 8 to 7 would be a mid-4th. Only an idiot would propose that chart. And, this happens again in the first round at picks 15-16. Funny, the cost to move up 17 spots in the 2nd round (it does not matter if you are at the bottom or near the middle), a mere 3rd round pick. So, it costs you the same to move from the bottom of the 2nd to the middle as it does to move from the middle of the 2nd to the top. There is nothing wrong with the old value chart. The values for the picks should not change because you are trading PICKS, not contracts. Years ago, before the salaries escalated to these proportions, the Falcons traded the #5 pick, a 3rd that season, a 2nd the next season, and Tim Dwight to move up 5 spots. That was a huge price and the cost between #5 and #1 was not that significant. And, teams that are in the top 5 are the ones paying through the nose for free agents, like the Jets with Alan Faneca, the Raiders with Tommy Kelly, and the Falcons with Michael Turner. Those teams have space because they lack the blue chippers on the roster to eat it up. Goodyear is not making new space age tires because your car costs more, quit trying to re-invent the wheel. It still works fine. I hope that this is some internet mistake that is being touted as NFL worthy. I would certainly hope that NFL teams would employ people intelligent enough to keep the costs between picks even or on a downward trend as you move through the round. The difference between selection 6 and 7 is only 40 points while the difference between 7 and 8 is 65. So, a team can move from 7 to 6 for a 5th rounder but the cost to move from 8 to 7 would be a mid-4th. Only an idiot would propose that chart. And, this happens again in the first round at picks 15-16. Funny, the cost to move up 17 spots in the 2nd round (it does not matter if you are at the bottom or near the middle), a mere 3rd round pick. So, it costs you the same to move from the bottom of the 2nd to the middle as it does to move from the middle of the 2nd to the top.

There is nothing wrong with the old value chart. The values for the picks should not change because you are trading PICKS, not contracts. Years ago, before the salaries escalated to these proportions, the Falcons traded the #5 pick, a 3rd that season, a 2nd the next season, and Tim Dwight to move up 5 spots. That was a huge price and the cost between #5 and #1 was not that significant.

And, teams that are in the top 5 are the ones paying through the nose for free agents, like the Jets with Alan Faneca, the Raiders with Tommy Kelly, and the Falcons with Michael Turner. Those teams have space because they lack the blue chippers on the roster to eat it up.

Goodyear is not making new space age tires because your car costs more, quit trying to re-invent the wheel. It still works fine.

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]]> By: Danomack http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15708 Danomack Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:00:34 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15708 I think it's perfect. I made up my own (way too much time on my hands), and it's almost exactly the same. I had larger gaps at the top between picks (smaller gaps at the bottom of round 1 OBV) but this makes much more sense because of the huge pay difference at the top; even between say, picks 2 and 4. Well done sir. Now just need to convince NFL owners it's good, no problem(?). BTW everyone saying "its good for this year" was the old chart good every year? I think it’s perfect. I made up my own (way too much time on my hands), and it’s almost exactly the same. I had larger gaps at the top between picks (smaller gaps at the bottom of round 1 OBV) but this makes much more sense because of the huge pay difference at the top; even between say, picks 2 and 4. Well done sir. Now just need to convince NFL owners it’s good, no problem(?). BTW everyone saying “its good for this year” was the old chart good every year?

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]]> By: stabtabulous http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15529 stabtabulous Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:26:56 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15529 This is good for this year but what about years where there are one or two players that are head and shoulders above the rest of the draftee's? This is good for this year but what about years where there are one or two players that are head and shoulders above the rest of the draftee’s?

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]]> By: Robopunter http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15530 Robopunter Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:26:56 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15530 Circulating a new trade chart partially defeats the purpose, anyway. The original chart was devised by the Jimmy Johnson-era Cowboys to take advantage of other teams' ignorance and make one-sided trades. If you've developed a more accurate trade chart, then you should guard that secret as best you can to take advantage of your opponents' ignorance by trading up or down, depending on which is overvalued. It's the same basic approach described in Moneyball: exploit inefficiencies. By sharing market information, you're making the market more efficient and, therefore, harder to take advantage of. Circulating a new trade chart partially defeats the purpose, anyway. The original chart was devised by the Jimmy Johnson-era Cowboys to take advantage of other teams’ ignorance and make one-sided trades. If you’ve developed a more accurate trade chart, then you should guard that secret as best you can to take advantage of your opponents’ ignorance by trading up or down, depending on which is overvalued.

It’s the same basic approach described in Moneyball: exploit inefficiencies. By sharing market information, you’re making the market more efficient and, therefore, harder to take advantage of.

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]]> By: BBrophy1 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15524 BBrophy1 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:18:25 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15524 I saw one from ProfootballTalk and one from ESPN the magazine and now the one above seems to value everyone yet another way. The old standard is certainly antiquated but multiple draft charts will only make trades more difficult. I saw one from ProfootballTalk and one from ESPN the magazine and now the one above seems to value everyone yet another way. The old standard is certainly antiquated but multiple draft charts will only make trades more difficult.

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]]> By: LeBigMac http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15519 LeBigMac Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:58:19 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15519 The chart doesn't look bad for this year, won't it won't reflect the true value most years. According to this chart to jump from 3rd to 1st overall would only cost a mid to late 3rd rounder. That's probably about the right value this year, when the top 3 or 4 guys are rated about the same, but that's usually not going to be even close to enough value to move to first overall. Its a step in the right direction, but the real fix for this would be to use the old trade value chart and put in a reasonable slotted rookie salary system. The chart doesn’t look bad for this year, won’t it won’t reflect the true value most years. According to this chart to jump from 3rd to 1st overall would only cost a mid to late 3rd rounder. That’s probably about the right value this year, when the top 3 or 4 guys are rated about the same, but that’s usually not going to be even close to enough value to move to first overall. Its a step in the right direction, but the real fix for this would be to use the old trade value chart and put in a reasonable slotted rookie salary system.

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]]> By: KY http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15517 KY Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:54:19 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15517 Looks like Jerry Jones came up with this chart...if he wanted to deal up for McFadden (4-5 range), his picks at 22 and 28 would equal 1690 which is right between picks 4 and 5. Looks like Jerry Jones came up with this chart…if he wanted to deal up for McFadden (4-5 range), his picks at 22 and 28 would equal 1690 which is right between picks 4 and 5.

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]]> By: Ditkas Cigar http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15514 Ditkas Cigar Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:45:22 +0000 http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/#comment-15514 Assuming all the teams adopt it, it's definitely a step in the right direction. Assuming all the teams adopt it, it’s definitely a step in the right direction.

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